SGC vs PSA

[Tobacco206]

Hey guys, just wanted to get everyone's thoughts.. been looking at so very many T206 cards lately maybe i'm a little card drunk but is it just me or what. When comparing SGC vs PSA cards it sure looks to me SGC is much tougher in grading. I know i like the slabs better and i think they really make the card pop. when comparing low grade 20,30's PSA eye appeal just doesn't compare to SGC.. I know its buy the card not the grade but its not hard to see PSA doesn't give the cards much more than a once over... i know we all will agree to disagree on which service we like but plz let me know what you think about each when it comes to what each does better than the other or worse than the other.

i still prefer raw hands down but if i do buy graded it will be SGC .

[kamikidEFFL]

Love the topic first off. As for myself I'm a PSA guy when it comes to graded cards but I have no problem with SGC. The one down thing on SGC i hate is that the case is too thick. I wish they were thin like PSA slabs, but keep that black background cuz it does make the card pop. As for grading I think both have their flaws but hey that's what happens when u have a second or third party grade them. I have both but my 34 n 38 goidey sets being graded by PSA only. As for my t206 or 19th century stuff ill do either.

[AndyG09]

Originally Posted by kamikidEFFL

The one down thing on SGC i hate is that the case is too thick. I wish they were thin like PSA slabs

The new PSA cases are 30% thicker than the old ones. Me personally, SGC for prewar and PSA for post.

Best,

Andy

[mrvster]

When it comes to pre-war......hands down SGC.....tougher grading, better cases....black background.....their customer service is outstanding....and when it comes to T206, SGC is a no-brainer

[kamikidEFFL]

Originally Posted by AndyG09

The new PSA cases are 30% thicker than the old ones. Me personally, SGC for prewar and PSA for post.

Best,

Andy

I didn't know that haven't had anything graded by PSA recently but that's good to know. But I agree with everyone on the SGC on 19th century stuff. T206 I haven't jumped into as much as most people on here so I would take their word for it on that. I only have one t206 which is SGC GRADED.

[wazoo]

I only have t206 cards graded...and graded by SGC because they have the best customer service, they grade by their guidelines, they're consistent unlike PSA, and their grading cases are more aesthetically appealing than PSA's cases. Just my two cents.

[kamikidEFFL]

now got a question for you guys. If your PSA or SGC guy would you not buy a card because its graded by the other company?? Or does it not matter

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by AndyG09

Me personally, SGC for prewar and PSA for post.

Best,

Andy

Agree 100%

SGC for prewar.
PSA for post
BGS for modern.

[g_vezina_c55]

Sgc all the way...pre war and post war. I buy only sgc cards
Love the black background
Sgc grade on place at the shriners card show
Their holder fit tight in the ultra pro sleeve protector for graded cards
Their grading is consistent
Love the registry with the picture

For many reason. : sgc is my choice

[GregMitch34]

I prefer SGC also, but one must admit they usually take a hit on prices on t206 and CJs and some other issues, I guess because PSA registry competition much hotter. So even with so many favoring SGC, I doubt if prices will ever catch up....Wish that wasn't true but certainly seems that it is.

[ullmandds]

The age old question that no one seems to tire about talking about...

Facts:

PSA grades less stringently than SGC
SGC has nicer holders
PSA has a bigger following because people are stupid
PSA has less morals than SGC

[frankbmd]

When Yogi saw this thread, he said,

"It's like déjà vu all over again,"

"and both companies will take cash, which is just as good as money"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-EZf56AfYc

[ullmandds]

exactly frank! I'm in montclair, NJ visiting my folks...if u want to stop by Yogi's house/museum and say hello for you!

[edhans]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Facts:

PSA grades less stringently than SGC
SGC has nicer holders
PSA has a bigger following because people are stupid
PSA has less morals than SGC

SGC actually gives a damn about it's customers.
SGC's pop report is awful.
PSA's set registry is purportedly more prestigeous than SGC's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

The age old question that no one seems to tire about talking about...

Facts:

PSA grades less stringently than SGC
SGC has nicer holders
PSA has a bigger following because people are stupid
PSA has less morals than SGC

I don't agree on grading. My experience and observation is that SGC is much more forgiving on corners and centering. On the other hand, SGC is less forgiving (or perhaps more rigorous in finding them) on wrinkles and paper loss.

[Fred]

I love it when this topic comes up again and again....

Ed, what are you saying? Are you indicating PSA doesn't care about their customers?

There is definitely one HUGE difference between PSA and SGC. SGC takes the time to talk to their customers and they seem to actually care about how their customers feel, even those that don't submit hundreds of cards. SGCs customer service is sooooooo MUCH BETTER than PSA.

The one thing I wish SGC (and other TPGs) would do is some how come up with a way to seal a slab so that people know it was tampered with. I guess Beckett has the best tamper proof cases but those things are a bit larger than a standard slab.

SGC for me.

[thehoodedcoder]

every time this comes up, i say this. i have submitted a decent amoutn of cross overs. over 75 percent, of the sgc cards won't get crossed over when requesting the same grade.

im not sure why everyone thinks that the grading is tougher at sgc. that is far from my experience.

kevin

[buymycards]

Funny that no one mentioned Beckett. Ugly slabs, bad pop report, and in my experience - poor customer service. No response at all to a question I sent them in regard to a mislabeled slab.

Rick

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

every time this comes up, i say this. i have submitted a decent amoutn of cross overs. over 75 percent, of the sgc cards won't get crossed over when requesting the same grade.

im not sure why everyone thinks that the grading is tougher at sgc. that is far from my experience.

kevin

I have very limited personal experience with crossing cards over to PSA. But from what I have read about others experiences, I do think there is a very good chance that PSA does not cross over cards in slabs on purpose. There are so many stories of how a card would not cross in slab, yet once busted out, they end up crossing. I would say the general census on the PSA boards is it's a waste of time and money crossing a slabbed card.

Now just to be fair, maybe PSA feels they cannot get a good enough look at a slabbed card. But my gut tells me that's not the likely reason.

[MattyC]

In my opinion, PSA cards cost me more as a collector because their Registry has such a rabid user base; heated PSA Registry competition creates higher prices for those slabs and also creates greater demand for graded PSA commons, hence more of their slabs being sold.

The upshot of all this is that PSA cards wind up costing collectors more because this PSA Registry demand is priced into those slabs, to some extent.

As a buyer, where possible, I try not to pay a premium for a game I personally do not play. That said, when I am seeking a card I will find the card I want, and whatever of those major TPGs has slabbed it, is fine with me.

Of course, I can see sellers desiring PSA for these very same reasons, just being on the opposite side of the table. Though if any sea changes were to take place in the TPG landscape, selling would turn to whoever is the market leader in X-many years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I disagree. I have seen many SGC 5s with corners that are too rounded to get a PSA 5, and higher grade cards that are too off center to get the corresponding PSA grade.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I disagree. I have seen many SGC 5s with corners that are too rounded to get a PSA 5, and higher grade cards that are too off center to get the corresponding PSA grade.

+1, and pertaining the higher graded, off centered SGC cards, I have many available for sale....

[1880nonsports]

by your off-centered cards - every collector gets to determine how to play the collecting game for themselves and align themselves to whichever company meets their expectations. I have some PSA 4's with back damage - perhaps we can trade. I am relatively happy with the job SGC does. I am not enamoured of the one that PSA does although if a card meets my standards I still buy their cards. I find SGC to be the most "professional" and their holder frames and protects my cards nicely. Of course I'm a 19th century guy - a minority voice..........

[midwaylandscaping]

I've got BGS/BVG/SGC/PSA cards in my collection. Each have their own quirks. No two grades are alike. Some PSA cards are better than some of the SGC's, some of the SGC's >>> PSA. Ditton for the BGS/BVG stuff. I'm not going to cast stones in either graders direction. There are good points and bad points about each TPG.

[freakhappy]

Honestly, I believe everyone's opinion is just that...their opinion. I think the cheerleading for either side is pointless unless you have valid points to bring to the table. I have gained experience from others on which TPG they prefer and why, but most importantly I only determined which I liked from purchasing and examining them myself.

PSA scares me A LOT when it comes to pre war...just a good amount of inconsistency. PSA 3's and some higher with paper loss or just plain overgraded cards. ..but I buy any slab...just depends on the card of course That being said, cards in lower grades can definitely vary within the same grade. I myself, prefer SGC, but do like PSA quite a bit for modern cards (high grade examples).

Golden Rule: Buy the card, not the holder!!!

[Iron Horse]

SGC is much more forgiving on corners where PSA is not. SGC will give you a half or even full grade bump if the eye appeal is of a card in a higher grade. I like the cards in SGC holders because they look as if they are framed mini art works. PSA gets you higher $$$ if you come to sell.
I buy both, if i like the card not the slab.

[slipk1068]

I have seen WAY more over-graded cards in PSA holders than in SGC holders.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-TOLSTOI...item19e62e835e

I challenge anyone to post an SGC 4 that looks as bad or worse than this.

[Tobacco206]

all great points here. sorry if its been covered and ran into the ground before. For me i guess its about getting the best value more than coming from the seller point of view side. I guess with so many t206 cards out there from such a big set that really does give the buyer a choice. thx for all the input so far

[tulsaboy]

It is really a larger topic than the simple question asked here, but I would suggest that when you allow such minuscule little things to differentiate a whole grade from 8-9-10, that it necessarily allows for wide disparities at the lower grades. If any company lined up all of their "4" or "40" cards, I would bet even they would be shocked.

[wonkaticket]

All of this has never really made sense to me. I think which ever you prefer you’re ok both are reputable companies or as reputable as you can be in this hobby.

In terms of folks making claims about this company’s cards sell for more…I think it’s all relative at best.

Bottom line quality items I mean really nice cards will sell for premiums regardless of what holders they are in. So as long as you’re buying cards with real eye appeal within their grades i.e. sharp VG’s, EX’s or NM’s and not just buying slabs to check off grade point averages you have nothing to worry about in terms of resell.

Cheers,

John

[GregMitch34]

Unfortunately, the price differential for PSA and SGC cards in certain issues can be pretty shocking. For example, in Southern League Old Mill cards, PSA 5s routinely go for $350 or more while SGC 5s struggle to hit $250. I'm sure that's due to registry but the gap is wide, if not justified by other factors.

[jerrys]

All personal opinions - show some proof.
Here are some inconsistencies labeled SGC 40 VG 3. All in the same grade!
Paper loss damage! - extremely rounded corners - the last cobb appears to be a grade or two higher.

x1-dunlap.jpg

x2-sullivan.jpg

x3-laporte.jpg

x4-cobb.jpg

x5-cobb.jpg

[Tobacco206]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

All of this has never really made sense to me. I think which ever you prefer you’re ok both are reputable companies or as reputable as you can be in this hobby.

In terms of folks making claims about this company’s cards sell for more…I think it’s all relative at best.

Bottom line quality items I mean really nice cards will sell for premiums regardless of what holders they are in. So as long as you’re buying cards with real eye appeal within their grades i.e. sharp VG’s, EX’s or NM’s and not just buying slabs to check off grade point averages you have nothing to worry about in terms of resell.

Cheers,

John

John, thats sorta what im saying and thats whats fits me better.... buy the card vs the holder.. just saying i like the way the SGC presents them better vs PSA.. for me a G or VG card with eye appeal is what im looking for overall.. lots of lower grade raw cards with eye appeal that are really nice.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by kamikidEFFL

now got a question for you guys. If your PSA or SGC guy would you not buy a card because its graded by the other company?? Or does it not matter

I prefer SGC. Mostly because when I first looked at sending a few cards in the membership or as I call it the cover charge with PSA really put me off. Beckett wasn't much better, with different grading for older cards, which seemed too much like the old "it's near mint for its age" that every flea market dealer seemed to live by. SGC seemed about right, and more reasonable.

But if I like a card, and if it seems like a good deal I don't worry about the holder. - I have a few from each of the big three, plus GAI and Accu-card.

If a card sells for a lot more graded by PSA, that to me is a reason to buy ungraded or SGC/Beckett. Why pay a whole lot extra for a fancy holder?
Each company seems to treat different sorts of defect differently.

Steve B

[steve B]

Originally Posted by jerrys

All personal opinions - show some proof.
Here are some inconsistencies labeled SGC 40 VG 3. All in the same grade!
Paper loss damage! - extremely rounded corners - the last cobb appears to be a grade or two higher.

Attachment 126273

Attachment 126274

Attachment 126275

Attachment 126276

Attachment 126277

The same things apply to PSA as well.

I learned a bit about grading at the shriners show this year. I graded a few cards, and brought a couple to ask about. Both were ones I felt were undergraded, one a 40 the other a 50. I'd had both for a long time and didn't see why they were graded so low.
What surprised me was how quickly the rep spotted the flaws.
The 40 had nice corners, but not great, and was well centered. I figured a 50, maybe almost a 55 but not quite.
In about 30 seconds he spotted some erased writing on the back that I'd missed. Only really visible with the magnifier. Yes, I'd have been right about maybe a weak 55 except for the erasure.

The 50 was a bit off center, but with very nice corners. It looks as good as some of the ones I've had come back as 70-80. The only thing I could think of was the tiny chip of surface missing from the front of one corner. But the chip is smaller than the areas I see worn on typical 50's and some 60's.
Again, very quickly he pointed out the tiny wrinkle on one border, also not really visible without the magnifier. And he explained that the grade was a cumulative grade, so while it's a great looking card, it's got a tiny wrinkle, a fleck of paperloss, not really great centering, and is a bit off-register. Without the wrinkle it would be higher, but with all four problems only deserves a 50.


The first two cards shown I think can truly be called mistakes. especially the first one. The second looks like it would be really nice aside from the paper loss. But I still wouldn't go for VG. The LaPorte and the first Cobb are almost exactly what I think of when I see a VG grade, The last Cobb I'd bet has some small flaw that won't show on the scan.

Recently I've seen a number of VG or even VG-EX cards from both companies that have creases, which I've always though of as putting a card solidly into the G grade.


Steve B

[Exhibitman]

My grading service is mightier that yours!

[freakhappy]

I think your analysis is spot on, Steve. The pictures that Jerry have provided us only really shows two cards that are probably mistakes...the first two. We have to remember that SGC only recently started grading with half grades (for the most part) and I believe if the card was closer to a three than a two, they would grade it that way.

There's no doubt every company makes mistakes on grading, but IMO SGC makes slightly fewer, making them my choice for the most part. I used to believe and heard that SGC only allowed cards with paper loss to receive nothing higher than a 1.5, but I have seen 2's consistently with paper loss...not sure how I feel about this, but I don't completely disagree I guess

Also, I know there are collectors that don't love SGC when they first started grading and believe their grading standards weren't as good...maybe some of their more mistake prone graded cards were during that era???

[Piratedogcardshows]

I prefer SGC for the look of the holder.I have never submitted to PSA so I can't really speak on there service.

[CMIZ5290]

Why are a lot of people preferring SGC because "of the looks of their holder"? Am I missing something here?? What does that have to do with anything? Maybe PSA will come out with red, white, and blue holders the first of the year...

[cozmokramer]

Originally Posted by AndyG09

The new PSA cases are 30% thicker than the old ones. Me personally, SGC for prewar and PSA for post.

Best,

Andy

Anyone have a scan of this newer thicker PSA slab? Maybe the two side by side showing the difference?

[AndyG09]

They had a sample of the new holder at the National. I read about the 30% greater thickness on the CU board from a collector who had a bunch of the new slabs.

I understand that SGC has a thinner slab that they are supposed to be coming out with. I talked to their rep at the Sun-Times show about them. Supposed to still stack with the current slab and have the black insert of course. I know they are working on getting a revamp on the website/registry too. Perhaps Earl can add something about that to the thread. I have been hearing about a revamped registry/pop report for too long.

Best,

Andy

[tschock]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Why are a lot of people preferring SGC because "of the looks of their holder"? Am I missing something here?? What does that have to do with anything? Maybe PSA will come out with red, white, and blue holders the first of the year...

If you have to ask, then you are.

I would offer for the same reason that people prefer matting and framing a photo/print than putting it in a cheap walmart plastic frame. If it's the same photo/print (meaning the same card condition, for this discussion) but the presentation is better (different card holder), ya think that might make a difference to some? Not sure how much clearer that could be.

Clarification on the above: I would venture it's not on the looks of the "holder" per se as much as it is on the looks of the (black background) insert.

[jerrys]

Mike C. says......only really shows two cards that are probably mistakes...the first two.
Probably!? These are shameful products of a professional grading company!

Also "...but IMO SGC makes slightly fewer (mistakes), making them my choice for the most part..."
perhaps you should consider that PSA is a much larger business and grades a great many more cards than SGC.

I took time to demonstrated extreme grading inconsistencies but they are condoned for bias reasons. Shame.


Perhaps some gross mistakes made by other grading companies could be shown here rather than the "oh yea" type comment - "the same things apply to PSA as well" - that is just too simple a reply. Show them!

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by jerrys

Mike C. says......only really shows two cards that are probably mistakes...the first two.
Probably!? These are shameful products of a professional grading company!

Also "...but IMO SGC makes slightly fewer (mistakes), making them my choice for the most part..."
perhaps you should consider that PSA is a much larger business and grades a great many more cards than SGC.

I took time to demonstrated extreme grading inconsistencies but they are condoned for bias reasons. Shame.


Perhaps some gross mistakes made by other grading companies could be shown here rather than the "oh yea" type comment - "the same things apply to PSA as well" - that is just too simple a reply. Show them!

I'm not a PSA hater, that's why I made the comments that I did. EVERY TPG makes mistakes....EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. Make sure you read that over and over so it sticks. I know the whole volume thing with PSA, but I've seen a lot more inconsistencies with them vs SGC...A LOT. You showed two examples I didn't comment for a while because it wasn't worth my time.

If you read this board, you know all about PSA and their roller coaster grading...I truly believed you knew about this already? Do we need to bring up the PSA 6 with paper loss...do we really? A big ole COME ON MAN!

Like I've said before, I like PSA, but over the last few years and several thousands of cards, I choose SGC for prewar. I don't mind if you or anyone else feels differently. It is what it is...

Don't be a hater because I reject the Kool-Aid

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Why are a lot of people preferring SGC because "of the looks of their holder"? Am I missing something here?? What does that have to do with anything? Maybe PSA will come out with red, white, and blue holders the first of the year...

Kevin, you're still trying to sell that Cy Young Tolstoi for 15k right? So why would you let such a super card go off for less in an SGC holder? Why not cross to PSA and get more money?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by jerrys

Mike C. says......only really shows two cards that are probably mistakes...the first two.
Probably!? These are shameful products of a professional grading company!

Also "...but IMO SGC makes slightly fewer (mistakes), making them my choice for the most part..."
perhaps you should consider that PSA is a much larger business and grades a great many more cards than SGC.

I took time to demonstrated extreme grading inconsistencies but they are condoned for bias reasons. Shame.


Perhaps some gross mistakes made by other grading companies could be shown here rather than the "oh yea" type comment - "the same things apply to PSA as well" - that is just too simple a reply. Show them!

Ok,

After I get done with the holidays and shopping and travel I'll have time to go through Ebay to find the boatload of PSA 5s and 4s with bad corners and even creases. Then save off pictures I don't really need, upload them and write some comments. I have a life, and I'm a bit busy, but when I get a chance I'll do that.

SGC makes mistakes, but the level of willful blindness I sometimes see in the PSA crowd is a good argument for TPG.

Steve B

[steve B]

Originally Posted by steve B

Ok,

After I get done with the holidays and shopping and travel I'll have time to go through Ebay to find the boatload of PSA 5s and 4s with bad corners and even creases. Then save off pictures I don't really need, upload them and write some comments. I have a life, and I'm a bit busy, but when I get a chance I'll do that.

SGC makes mistakes, but the level of willful blindness I sometimes see in the PSA crowd is a good argument for TPG.

Steve B

Ok, now that I'm back............Just a quick look
PSA 4 with a nice corner crease.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-1911-T2...item4acb7def9e

3.5 with a creased corner.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Bill-Hi...-/370971716850

3 with a crease and one really bad corner.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...-/321284282509

3 with two big creases and staining.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Pat-McC...-/380803449664

A couple more really rough 3s one with lots of creasing, the other with paperloss on the front.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-George-...-/360821894971

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Willie-...-/380803415795

PSA 5 with a crease.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...item4ace09188e

All the main companies make mistakes, probably at about the same rate. But as someone else pointed out PSA has done more cards overall, so their mistakes might seem more common.

Steve B

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by jerrys

Perhaps some gross mistakes made by other grading companies could be shown here rather than the "oh yea" type comment - "the same things apply to PSA as well" - that is just too simple a reply. Show them!

What do I win?

[jerrys]

Someone else?

Good work Steve - especially the Keeler paper loss 3 and the creased 4 and 5.

There is no excuse at all for such blatant grading errors to get by quality control of any professional grading service.

IMO a couple of other substandard examples:

clarkson.jpg

dunlap.jpg

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by steve B

All the main companies make mistakes, probably at about the same rate.

You call them "mistakes", I call it TPG corruption, preferential treatment, or printing money for their best customers/friends. I have never submitted a card with a crease and had it come back a 4 and I suspect I never will.

Originally Posted by jerrys

Someone else?

I think it has been covered adequately in this and many other threads. Do you really need to see more examples?