pwcc (part two)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

As far as I can tell, we haven't done a single thing to rectify the problem. All we've done is hold a massive kangaroo court with a bunch of people snapping at each other. We've got a lawyer who thinks that everyone ought to complain to law enforcement, but if you ask him specifically whom we ought to call, he can't tell you. He won't say. So we have reached the point where absolutely nothing has been done except create three threads that are a basically just a bunch of people bickering with each other about scans and scanners. Maybe that's because no one other than us even cares about this. Maybe law enforcement isn't the least bit interested, and this whole thing has been nothing more than a source of entertainment.

I don't think even "we" care enough to make a stand. How many people here (among those who believe this auctioneer has some serious issues that have yet to be addressed) would refuse to bid with him or consign to him? I hope I am wrong but my presumption is that most people are not wiling to take a stand if it means any degree of sacrifice including passing on a baseball card they want.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't think even "we" care enough to make a stand. How many people here (among those who believe this auctioneer has some serious issues that have yet to be addressed) would refuse to bid with him or consign to him? I hope I am wrong but my presumption is that most people are not wiling to take a stand if it means any degree of sacrifice including passing on a baseball card they want.

You're never going to get a boycott of an auction house unless it's a de facto boycott because everyone is terrified that they won't get their cards or consignment checks as what occurred to one poster who consigned with Legendary and got stiffed. If there is enough easily noticed fraud or funny business with an auction house, some law enforcement body will investigate. Doesn't have to be the feds. Keep in mind that there are NUMEROUS investigations going on right now of auction houses in our hobby. Just because they're not public doesn't mean that they don't exist. People are going to prison. Auction house principles have been sued for fraud. Consignors who have conspired with auction houses to defraud bidders have been successfully sued or have reached out of court settlements. The bottom line is, as victims here we have more power than we think. Don't be so quick to assume everyone is getting away with it, they're not.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

You're never going to get a boycott of an auction house unless it's a de facto boycott because everyone is terrified that they won't get their cards or consignment checks as what occurred to one poster who consigned with Legendary and got stiffed. If there is enough easily noticed fraud or funny business with an auction house, some law enforcement body will investigate. Doesn't have to be the feds. Keep in mind that there are NUMEROUS investigations going on right now of auction houses in our hobby. Just because they're not public doesn't mean that they don't exist. People are going to prison. Auction house principles have been sued for fraud. Consignors who have conspired with auction houses to defraud bidders have been successfully sued or have reached out of court settlements. The bottom line is, as victims here we have more power than we think. Don't be so quick to assume everyone is getting away with it, they're not.

I agree a boycott is too ambitious to be practical, but as a matter of principle I still think people should refuse to deal with people they think are fraudulent. I know we have disagreed on this before.