Joseph M Pankiewicz, you are a disgrace to this hobby!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by botn

Either I am not understanding what you wrote or you have misunderstood this thread. The person who is being accused of altering the baseball cards, Joe P, is a dealer, not a collector, and is not doing it to advance any sets in the registry. The alterations are done to enhance the value of the cards so they can be sold for a profit.

Are there any registry collectors at the top who believe all of their cards are unaltered?

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Are there any registry collectors at the top who believe all of their cards are unaltered?

I doubt it and I hope not.

[botn]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Are there any registry collectors at the top who believe all of their cards are unaltered?

I do not have contact with any of the guys at the top so I cannot speak for them. It is my sense since the grading companies rarely buy cards back that this feeds their false sense of confidence or plays right into what they want to believe. This is not a knock against the top registry collectors just great marketing on behalf of the slabbers.

In all my years in the hobby, despite seeing too high of a percentage of altered cards in holders, I have never had any of the grading companies agree and buy a single card back from me or anyone who has presented them with cards on my behalf. It would seem they are never wrong. So I have stopped sending cards in on review. The guarantees they offer are pretty useless.

[Peter_Spaeth]

From memory Jim Crandell used to make statements to the effect that he didn't believe any of his cards were altered, but he is a very smart guy and I always suspected there was an element of bluster there.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

From memory Jim Crandell used to make statements to the effect that he didn't believe any of his cards were altered, but he is a very smart guy and I always suspected there was an element of bluster there.

Ya think just an element of bluster? Jim knew/knows what is going on. Considering where we was getting some of his high grade stuff I would absolutely guarantee the cards were altered to the max!

[thehoodedcoder]

Since there is not going to be another response from this person maybe now it is time to start taking some action against what has happened?

How much is an advertising spot on this forum? Can we put up a banner ad?

A simple banner saying "Josepth Pankiewicz alters cards and resubmits them for higher grades" would be sufficient.

Kevin

[CW]

Other than more ad revenue for Leon, what would that accomplish? Not trying to be snarky, just realistic. He could always submit under a different name.

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by CW

Other than more ad revenue for Leon, what would that accomplish? Not trying to be snarky, just realistic. He could always submit under a different name.

Unfortunately, you're probably correct. If he lived in the foothills of Northern California, I could have a couple of my associates swing by his house for a quick visit. Heck, since he seems like a pretty nice guy, they might even be able to convince him to submit some of his own personal PSA/DNA on the barrel of a Louisville Slugger...

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Jim Crandell has a testimonial on PSA's website. It's also worth reading Ken Kendrick's and Brian Seigel's testimonials in light of the Mastro T206 Wagner PSA 8 debacle.

http://www.psacard.com/About/Testimonials

The problem I see with all of these testimonials is that there is a an on-going theme of blind confidence with no persuasive proof of PSA's ability to detect alterations. Nowhere does anyone say, "I deliberately doctored some cards to see if they would get detected by PSA and when I submitted them, PSA caught each and every type of alteration."

[tbob]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Jim Crandell has a testimonial on PSA's website. It's also worth reading Ken Kendrick's and Brian Seigel's testimonials in light of the Mastro T206 Wagner PSA 8 debacle.

http://www.psacard.com/About/Testimonials

The problem I see with all of these testimonials is that there is a an on-going theme of blind confidence with no persuasive proof of PSA's ability to detect alterations. Nowhere does anyone say, "I deliberately doctored some cards to see if they would get detected by PSA and when I submitted them, PSA caught each and every type of alteration."

Does anyone in this day and age really doubt that submitters who exclusively use one grading company and submit thousands and thousands of cards to them for grading, don't receive better grades than Sam P. Collector who submits a handful of cards a year? These testimonials are a joke.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Are there any registry collectors at the top who believe all of their cards are unaltered?

Can't you say this for anyone's collection, however? I mean even for the raw collections of the long time collectors and experts on this board, can they say with 100% confidence that all of the card in their collection that they believe are unaltered are that way? I think that's tough unless you have a very small collection or just have the original cards that you purchased right out of the pack.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by glchen

Can't you say this for anyone's collection, however? I mean even for the raw collections of the long time collectors and experts on this board, can they say with 100% confidence that all of the card in their collection that they believe are unaltered are that way? I think that's tough unless you have a very small collection or just have the original cards that you purchased right out of the pack.

Ok, I'll go out on that limb.

My collection is good sized. I've never really counted, but since I have sports and non-spors, and don't avoid the late 80's-early 90's junk era......probably a bit over 20,000 cards? Oldest 1887, newest this afternoon.

I do have a few altered cards, everything from trimmed/skinned to just written on. And a small number - maybe 5 that I'm not certain of. The rest I'm confident are not altered.

Steve Birmingham

[Pat R]

I don't believe you can say the cards like drysdale and gehrig are the same
cards that have been bumped when the identifying marks are all related
to the printing process.Take a look at these two cards that are not even the
same players, besides the same exact plate scratch marks look at all
the other marks that are the same.

[thehoodedcoder]

you make a good point. i think that its totally possible for 2 cards to have the same markings. i had thought this before.

your cards have different fronts though. there is a smaller percentage of cards with the same front and same markings on the back. what are the percentage of cards that have the same number of marks on them.

then what percentage of them are in higher grade, with a desirable player on the front. what percentage of those cards are owned and sold by the same person in a short period of time?

kevin

[vintagetoppsguy]

The two T206s have printing anomalies within the normal print of the card. The Drysdale, Gehrig, etc all had stray print marks that were the same from card to card. There's a big difference.

Also, there were other factors besides the print marks such as natural flaws within the cardboard that was the same from card to card - something that shouldn't occur. Another factor was also centering that was the same from card to card.

When you look at all the evidence, and the fact that he shilled the cards, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that each card was the same.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The two T206s have printing anomalies within the normal print of the card. The Drysdale, Gehrig, etc all had stray print marks that were the same from card to card. There's a big difference.

Also, there were other factors besides the print marks such as natural flaws within the cardboard that was the same from card to card - something that shouldn't occur. Another factor was also centering that was the same from card to card.

When you look at all the evidence, and the fact that he shilled the cards, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that each card was the same.

And Joe did not deny they were the same cards unless I missed something, just claimed he did nothing to them.