Over/Underpriced HOFers

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

Rhett, you are forgetting to take into consideration the era in which the player played. For instance, Reggie Jackson and Brooks Robinson played in extreme pitching eras and actually put up very good WAR ratings in spite of their raw stats. Factor in Brooks Robinson's outstanding defense and he definitely belongs. Also, a horrible year at age 38 kind of drags down his hitting stats. Traynor has the better stats on the surface, but if you look deeper, Robinson was the better player.

Actually. no I'm not forgetting about the era they played in. I have read more Bill James and SABR-metrics statistical analyses than anyone I know. I understand where you are coming from and part of me agrees but at the end of the day Brooks just wasn't that great of a hitter yet he gets mad kudos from people, the same people that like to say Bill Mazeroski is the worst HOFer...ever. I just feel like a lot of the guys that delve too into statistics tend to have a hard time seeing the forest for the trees. Brooks may very well be the best fielder at his position, but his cards shouldn't be worth more than guys like Frank Robinson and the like, it just defies logic to me.

It seems to me that you are really eager to overlook Robinson's shortcomings (ie hitting) and very quick to denigrate Pie Traynor or Jimmy Collins strengths. I don't agree that Brooks was the better player, and many would agree with me, although I am probably in the minority as Brooks seems to be a fan favorite as people in Baltimore love the guy.

[cyseymour]

Brooks was certainly not on the level of Frank Robinson and honestly I don't follow the card prices for either of them, so I can't comment on that. But in relation to Brooks and Traynor, their eras were so dramatically different that when you look at their hitting, they both posted similar OPS+ (104 to 107). But Brooks had a much longer career than Traynor and was superior defensively at an important position. So I will take Brooks over Traynor anyday. I am not saying that Jimmy Collins and Traynor don't deserve to be in the HOF, just that Brooks Robinson is a first-ballot HOFer who was the greatest defensive 3B-man of all time, a legend in Baltimore, won an MVP and sixteen straight gold gloves.

[RCMcKenzie]

Other than hoping to create a debate, I don't see how stating that Dizzy Dean's cards are overpriced can be taken seriously. He was the last National Leaguer to win 30 games, and my grandfather was a Cardinals fan.

I would guess that Joe Gordon's cards are overpriced, but I don't know how much they go for.

[SMPEP]

Very surprised no one has mentioned Stan Musial as underpriced.

His cards can mostly be had for a song, and you're talking about one of the seriously great players of all time.

Cheers,
Patrick

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

Very surprised no one has mentioned Stan Musial as underpriced.

His cards can mostly be had for a song, and you're talking about one of the seriously great players of all time.

Cheers,
Patrick

I totally agree Patrick. Musial's problem was he didn't play in New York and he wasn't flashy. Just a genuinely nice guy. Too bad he wasn't signed with Topps in 1952. I would have likee to have seen a Musial 1952 Topps high number!

[Exhibitman]

Spahn and Mathews are undervalued given their relative places among the greats. Spahn especially.

I don't think Gehrig is undervalued relative to the other cards in most of the sets he is in, like with Exhibits, it is usually Ruth-Gehrig as 1-2 in price. He's never going to be at Ruth's level because Ruth was the greatest player [factoring in a HOF caliber pitching career and his batting career no one else is close] and the largest personality in baseball history.

Peak performance versus longevity is a difficult issue. Is Koufax overvalued because his career was so short? Is Aaron undervalued because he was so good for so long? Is it better to burn out than fade away?

[D. Bergin]

Looking at the back of Jimmie Foxx's baseball card, it's pretty obvious if he had played for the Yankees (and I'm a Yankee fan), his cards would sell for multiple times what they do now.

[judsonhamlin]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Other than hoping to create a debate, I don't see how stating that Dizzy Dean's cards are overpriced can be taken seriously. He was the last National Leaguer to win 30 games, and my grandfather was a Cardinals fan.

I would guess that Joe Gordon's cards are overpriced, but I don't know how much they go for.

There is no doubt that Dean had a couple of great years, but given his playing career as a whole, I am not sure he is worth multiples of the "base HOF" price in the Goudey or Batter-Up sets. There, he is closer to Lefty Grove than to Dazzy Vance or even Carl Hubbell.

[gavvy]

Chuck Klein cards are very cheap. He may not have been an upper tier HOFer and played in some band boxes but still was NL MVP in 33, led NL in HRs 4 x, had 5 200 hit seasons , and even led the league in SBs in 1932.
His Goudey, Buttercream, Miller, Tattoo cards etc are dirt cheap.