Who was the best center fielder of all time?

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by robw1959

... But Mays did not have over 400 outfield assists... In my mind the overall greatest CF was Speaker.

Speaker's assist numbers are ridiculous, but I think they're really tough to compare with current OF stats. Playing much of his careeer in the dead ball era (and in some small ballparks as mentioned earlier) allowed him to play a much shallower CF than modern day outfielders. I think it was probably not that uncommon for a CF to get an assist on a standard force out a 2nd on an otherwise clean line drive to center. I think runners were also more aggressive in stretching singles into doubles and doubles into triples, allowing for more assist opportunities. Mays by all reports had an absolutely cannon of an arm, and playing in the modern era has very respectable even high assist total for a center fielder.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Speaker's assist numbers are ridiculous, but I think they're really tough to compare with current OF stats. Playing much of his careeer in the dead ball era (and in some small ballparks as mentioned earlier) allowed him to play a much shallower CF than modern day outfielders. I think it was probably not that uncommon for a CF to get an assist on a standard force out a 2nd on an otherwise clean line drive to center. I think runners were also more aggressive in stretching singles into doubles and doubles into triples, allowing for more assist opportunities. Mays by all reports had an absolutely cannon of an arm, and playing in the modern era has very respectable even high assist total for a center fielder.

Small parks everywhere isn't exactly what I meant. Fenway was small and playing there let Speaker play a different sort of centerfield. Most other parks of the time were enormous. Huntingdon avenue grounds were 350 down the LF line, and between 530 and 635 to center. Distances down the lines of around 350-360 weren't unusual even in parks built in the same era as Fenway. And center was often 440+ with some places still being in the 500 foot range. With spectators allowed on the field at times, a line drive that got past a fielder was bad news, often a home run. In Fenway Speaker could play shallow, and with the leftfielder also playing shallow, backup was close enough to matter.

League park was also on the small side especially to right. That might have let him play more towards left, maybe cutting off some angle for righthanded batters.

But he still had to be fast enough for the typical large parks.

It would be interesting to see how many of his OF assists were at home after 1912.
What's also interesting is that looking at the stats there wasn't a big jump in assists between the years before 1912 and 1912 and after. So maybe what I've always heard is wrong?

Steve B

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by steve B

... But he still had to be fast enough for the typical large parks.

It would be interesting to see how many of his OF assists were at home after 1912.
What's also interesting is that looking at the stats there wasn't a big jump in assists between the years before 1912 and 1912 and after. So maybe what I've always heard is wrong?

Steve B

I'd love to see those types of home/away defensive splits. I'd also have loved to see that style of baseball, since I think the outfield assist is one of the most exciting and underrated plays in baseball.. and I think so much better in person than on TV, in that you're able to see the whole play as it develops. I do still have to think many of those assists were force outs at 2nd on what would have otherwise been hits, as well throwing behind runners after catching short line drives (splits on that would be great too)... both assist types that are pretty rare today. I also do think runners were much more aggressive and took more chances (just look how many attempted steals there were back then)... though have definitely done less reading/research on the topic as you have.

These types of ridiculous statistical disparities (outfield assists, batters' low strike out rates, frequency of running and bunting, more triples, inside the park home runs, stealing home, etc) between then and today's game make me wish so much that I could see one game from that era.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

In regards to the Mantle legen(wait for it)dary! status, it seems almost inhuman some of the stuff he did. Bo Jackson is a modern day Mantle, that guy was an absolute beast! He may not have been the best at what he did, but some of the stuff he did made you wonder, 'how the hell can someone do that'. The stories are incredible.

[quinnsryche]

Jim Edmonds & Torii Hunter (I never saw the others besides Griffey and those 2 were not better hitters but were the best fielding centerfielders I have ever seen).