Bogus/scary 2nd chance offers on eBay BEWARE

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Sorry to quote myself; however, I still contend that someone at eBay doing nefarious things is a strong possibility.

I agree Eric... or that there's someone has been able to hack into places on eBay's site they have no business being.

Been a hectic week and still haven't found time to read the article (my firewalls are blocking it now) but I'm glad this has at least caught someone's attention.. even with the article's aforementioned flawed logic. Seems like many weren't too bothered when the original emails started going out.. but now that it's gotten a little press, eBay has to act like they're acting, right??? Unless of course they're behind the article and Mr. Siciliano's logic... have to read the article and judge for myself.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Sorry to quote myself; however, I still contend that someone at eBay doing nefarious things is a strong possibility.

They are a publicly traded company. Investors and stakeholders deserve answers here...just my two cents.

Best Regards,

Eric

If there is someone doing something at ebay, in a nefarious manner, my guess is it would be a rogue employee and not company related otherwise.

[arc2q]

The article makes a key point that offers a clue that this is not an internal job or even a rogue employee but a very sophisticated scheme involving an actual legitimate seller (or someone with access to a legitimate seller's account).

It supposes that jrengineer70 has actually previously sold things to the people he/she is scamming. So he a) knows what you are interested in, and b) knows your email address from previous winning bids. Then he looks for similar items to the one he sold you (say he sold you a T206 Southern Leaguer he knows you may also be into other T206 SLs of a higher price tag). Then he matches your known eBay handle to one of the other bidders on someone else's auction. Say your actual handle is T206lover with a 56 feedback score and he sees other bids that are T*******r56 he knows it is probably you who did the bidding. He knows your email address from a previous sale and takes a chance by sending you the second chance offer.

The interesting question would be whether any those who posted saying they received these offers have actually won auctions through jrengineer70 previously? If not then this theory is totally bunk...but it seems like it would be plausible.

[arc2q]

Actually, one clarification...if he sold something previously to those he is now scamming he probably did so with a different account name. Obviously. So I guess there really isn't a way to know whether you have previously done business with this same person. Maybe he only has access to someone else's account and can tell what you are buying and your actual email address...then he sends the fake scam emails to people he has matched to other sales as low bidders. Sophisticated but not at all out of the realm of possible. It would not require an inside job at all...just access to a legitimate buyer's account and the time to match email addresses to under bidders on other people's items.

[CW]

Originally Posted by arc2q

Actually, one clarification...if he sold something previously to those he is now scamming he probably did so with a different account name. Obviously. So I guess there really isn't a way to know whether you have previously done business with this same person. Maybe he only has access to someone else's account and can tell what you are buying and your actual email address...then he sends the fake scam emails to people he has matched to other sales as low bidders. Sophisticated but not at all out of the realm of possible. It would not require an inside job at all...just access to a legitimate buyer's account and the time to match email addresses to under bidders on other people's items.

I would say this is a plausible theory, IF it was happening with only sportscards and collectibles, however it's happening in several categories. The article states:

Targets appear to be those who have gone after relatively costly auction items, from collectibles to cars to artwork to jewelry.

I do like the image they used in the article, although I'm not sure if this is supposed to represent someone who just lost an eBay auction, or someone who just fell prey to the scam. I dunno.... to me it looks like she was just underbidder on that PSA 7 Mantle....



Here's the article for those who can't access it:

Scam targets eBay auction losers

A scam that aims at eBay users who have lost out on auction items has raised alarm.

By Mitch Lipka Tue 1:28 PM

A new scam targeting eBay users who were losing bidders has victims and intended victims abuzz about whether the online auction giant has been hacked.


Suspicions have been fueled by the amount of information the scammer -- or scammers -- has about the failed bidders. eBay would not directly address the question of hacking, but the company acknowledged it is looking into reports of the latest version of what is known as a "Second Chance" scam.


"eBay is investigating this matter, working directly with users who have reported fraudulent second chance offers to us," the company said in a statement.


The scammer emails the losing bidder with a note like this:


"The seller (Username) is making this Second Chance Offer because the high bidder was either unable to complete the transaction or the seller has a duplicate item for sale. The selling of this item through Second Chance Offer is in compliance with eBay policy; you will be able to exchange Feedback with the seller and will be eligible for all eBay services associated with a transaction, such as fraud protection."


Targets appear to be those who have gone after relatively costly auction items, from collectibles to cars to artwork to jewelry. Some who have fallen prey report losing thousands of dollars. The email address jrengineer@gmail.com​ has been associated with numerous complaints. An email to that address asking for a comment was not returned.


The scam emails appear to be from eBay and seems to be from a legitimate seller. However, rather than providing for the normal payment methods -- namely PayPal -- the targets are asked to send their money directly to an overseas bank account.


"These scams occur through personal email, off the eBay site. Always start and end your transaction on eBay," eBay said in its statement, noting that a Second Chance offer can be legitimate. "Consumers should keep in mind that legitimate Second Chance Offers are facilitated through eBay and will appear in the 'Messages' section of 'My eBay.'


"If you're suspicious about an email that claims to be from eBay, sign in to 'My eBay' and click the 'Messages' tab. If you don't see the same message there, the email is fake."


An internet security expert said he doubts this round of scams is the result of eBay being hacked. The most likely scenario, according to McAfee Online Security Expert Robert Siciliano is that the scammer is also a seller and, therefore, can see bidders IDs and has matched those IDs to email addresses.

The key to avoiding the scam, which is a form of phishing, is to recognize it, he said. "It works so well because unless you really know what to look for in the code of an email, you aren't going to recognize a phish. The only way to thwart a scammy eBay phish is to discipline yourself to only correspond with eBayers via your eBay inbox."

It isn't often that those running these scams are caught, Siciliano said, and money that's lost usually can't be returned. "Catching the bad guys generally isn't cost effective for eBay or for law enforcement," he said.



"There's potentially thousands of scammers out there and unless it is determined that a significant amount of them are organized and working together then law enforcement won't chase them. Plus, how are the feds going to arrest a guy in a hut in Ghana? Its only when the law stumbles upon and existing ring and determines that eBay is part of their operation will they dig deeper."

eBay recommends users "forward suspicious emails to spoof@ebay.com." They also urged that "Consumers should never pay for purchases with instant cash transfer services. These payment methods are unsafe when paying someone you do not know."

[robw1959]

I don't know if they ever catch anybody, but I normally forward those second chance offer e-mails to spoof@ebay.com, especially if I'm uncertain if the offer is genuine. Then eBay can reply with a confirmation that the offer was truly fake.

[ezez420]

I looked up one of the previous auctions that jengineer sent a second chance offer from and the winning bidder is no longer a registered user. The item was a $4500 d304 Mathewson card psa 5.i received a second chance offer having bid on it from jengineer. Could it be possible that accounts have been hijacked and then other accounts are used to win auctions? This way no item is ever shipped out, the email can go out from the winning bidder with the information provided from the seller, however the seller is never being associated as the emails don't match. I will say this the seller did not answer any questions on the item and hasn't sold an item since. There are quite a few of these one off single high dollar cards lately from people with no history or feedback.

I am curious if this is the case on other high dollar auctions that people got emails from.

[arc2q]

ezes420-
That sounds like a very plausible theory. That would fit the profile of the scam and explain how the scammer gets the email information on the underbidders.

[itjclarke]

I'm not sure I fully follow/understand (reading quickly on phone) the previous post(s), but will say I exchanged several emails with the real seller on the item I received a bogus 2nd chance offer on... Then eventually the winning bidder on the item posted here.. So we know, at least with near certainty that particular auction and sale were legit. Seller had no apparent knowledge of scam mails I'd received.

[ezez420]

Then that debunks my theory.

[WillowGrove]

For the record I received a second chance offer last night from

jrenv.engineer60@gmail.com

So it's still going on a month or two later.

I remember when this thread started and I didn't read it again now but if there is anything I can do to help bring this guy down can someone please let me know.

Also - the email came through as SPAM which gave me reason to be concerned since Ebay emails never come through as SPAM (for me)

thanks to this thread I can save my money and headache. so thank you.

[Moonlight Graham]

I got one too on Saturday the 15th-same email address as everyone else and the same format.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by WillowGrove

For the record I received a second chance offer last night from

jrenv.engineer60@gmail.com

So it's still going on a month or two later.

I remember when this thread started and I didn't read it again now but if there is anything I can do to help bring this guy down can someone please let me know.

Also - the email came through as SPAM which gave me reason to be concerned since Ebay emails never come through as SPAM (for me)

thanks to this thread I can save my money and headache. so thank you.

I wonder how much money this thread and others exposing bogus cards or shady vendors have saved board members. The figure would be staggering, I am sure.

[travrosty]

always type in ebays address in the header and go to ebay first before you respond to any second chance offers and only respond to offers that go through ebay and it will eliminate these phishing emails.