Legit altering

[Exhibitman]

This is an old debate that has never been resolved and probably never will be.

Let me throw this out there: some cards I've seen--mostly cabinets--are made with cardboard that is in desperate need of stabilizing and de-acidifying or it simply won't last. What do we do with them? Is it better to let them crumble into dust rather than have a conservation specialist stabilize them?

[conor912]

Well said Adam. I have often thought that TPGs should offer that as a service.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I think the key words here are professional conservation.......NOT somebody with a bowl of water and/or an eraser. As in comic books that are cleaned and slabbed...restoration is noted on the label. As far as our cardboard disintegrating over time, that is inevitable. One can slow the process down and of course improve appearance, but not halt the process completely. dave

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I think the key words here are professional conservation.......NOT somebody with a bowl of water and/or an eraser. As in comic books that are cleaned and slabbed...restoration is noted on the label. As far as our cardboard disintegrating over time, that is inevitable. One can slow the process down and of course improve appearance, but not halt the process completely. dave

Dave, if you get a chance, can you post a link to a comic with a restoration note? I'm curious to see how they word it.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by conor912

Dave, if you get a chance, can you post a link to a comic with a restoration note? I'm curious to see how they word it.

CGC slabs restored comics with a "purple flip", instead of the "blue flip" that they use for un-altered comics. They also note, all the restorations that are detected, and give them an "Apparent" grade.

There's a CGC restored issue of Fantastic 4 #3 in this forum link...

http://boards.collectors-society.com...Number=4362103

[oaks1912]

Nothing wrong with professional restoration at all, provided that the knowledge is included with each future transaction of the piece(s) in question. Professional conservators generally provide a detailed, written report of all services performed on the piece, so this eliminates any miscommunications. Whether paper or textiles, all will age differently, but by design will not last forever. I'm still waiting for a qualified scientist to describe the effect of aging paper encapsulated in a petroleum based , airtight holder, and whether this accelerates the aging process of various paper stocks. Petroleum and paper generally do not fare well together over time....

[mr.t206]

Conor, I'm new to this board and still trying to figure out how to post a link, but if you go to ebay and type in cgc comics restored you will see how they label a restored comic. They (cgc) put it in their cert/label on top. It would be really nice if tpg's would get on board with this. Hope it helped

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I think the key words here are professional conservation.......NOT somebody with a bowl of water and/or an eraser. As in comic books that are cleaned and slabbed...restoration is noted on the label. As far as our cardboard disintegrating over time, that is inevitable. One can slow the process down and of course improve appearance, but not halt the process completely. dave

Funny. Do you know what people do with the "bowl of water" or the "eraser"? Do you know the difference in results? I ask seriously, since your response doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless you think that soaking cards is an amateurish thing that ruins cards. I know that one board member claimed that faded cards had the same appearance as a card that had been soaked, which is total rubbish. I asked him about it, but did not get a response.

Also, as far as I know soaking cards doesn't cause any issues with the TPA's. Adding chemicals is something different altogether; however, I agree with those who feel like cards sometimes need professional conservation - completely different from removing paper and glue with water.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Funny. Do you know what people do with the "bowl of water" or the "eraser"? Do you know the difference in results? I ask seriously, since your response doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless you think that soaking cards is an amateurish thing that ruins cards. I know that one board member claimed that faded cards had the same appearance as a card that had been soaked, which is total rubbish. I asked him about it, but did not get a response.

Also, as far as I know soaking cards doesn't cause any issues with the TPA's. Adding chemicals is something different altogether; however, I agree with those who feel like cards sometimes need professional conservation - completely different from removing paper and glue with water.

Yes I know, (from reading previous threads) what people do with bowls of water and erasers. I know the results can improve a cards appearance. And YES I think it is an amateurish thing to do. I know erasers can ruin cards, but I don't know if the effects of "having a bath" are detrimental on a microscopic or even a molecular level. I do know that a "professional conservator" would not do either, so I suspect it is "bad" for the substances that comprise our treasures. I suggest that someone here, ( 6 degrees of separation) knows a professional or can contact a conservator and get their input. In other words, before we get into a conflict...let's consult a pro. Dave.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Yes I know, (from reading previous threads) what people do with bowls of water and erasers. I know the results can improve a cards appearance. And YES I think it is an amateurish thing to do. I know erasers can ruin cards, but I don't know if the effects of "having a bath" are detrimental on a microscopic or even a molecular level. I do know that a "professional conservator" would not do either, so I suspect it is "bad" for the substances that comprise our treasures. I suggest that someone here, ( 6 degrees of separation) knows a professional or can contact a conservator and get their input. In other words, before we get into a conflict...let's consult a pro. Dave.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the soaking/pressing method is in a pro restorer's bag of tricks.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Perhaps it is, but it is not a "trick" it is a science. Someone should find out for sure. (but not me) dave.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

...
I know erasers can ruin cards, but I don't know if the effects of "having a bath" are detrimental on a microscopic or even a molecular level.

I just told you in the previous post. If you choose not to believe that it does the card (or other items such as National Copper Plate premiums or even albumen photographs) no harm, then consult someone whose opinion you trust more - telling us that you believe the process "amateurish" and that someone other than yourself should consult a professional to determine the truth, is ludicrous.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Here is an interesting video I found on utube. It's interesting to watch and hear these professionals talk about molecular bonding and the scientific principles involved. Way beyond my complete understanding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKEfOXNYzr8 Dave