Babe Ruth?

[Frozen in Time]

I originally joined this forum because of my interest in vintage photos. After a couple of years viewing numerous threads I was very pleased with the amount of new information regarding this topic (and others) that were covered. In particular I have valued very much the free exchange of ideas, different views and new perspectives that have been shared with friends like Jimmy and Ben via PMs. I have enjoyed these interactions very much and have learned a lot!

I guess I was spoiled by the positive and sharing environment that existed with the vintage photo community (and many others on this forum), because many of the autograph threads that I have read, and this one in particular, pale in comparison from a sharing/learning experience point of view.

Yes, I have learned a lot about Mantle autos (mostly from a few kind individuals who were willing to PM some very helpful criteria to look for) but for some reason many of the auto threads seem primarily to involve agendas, drama, egos and personal attacks. I realize that is often the price of admission and I'm fine with that, I just wish more of the "experts" would try to help novices like myself by sharing actual facts/evidence when it comes to a determination of authenticity. Otherwise, I don't see the point.

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by Frozen in Time

I guess I was spoiled by the positive and sharing environment that existed with the vintage photo community (and many others on this forum), because many of the autograph threads that I have read, and this one in particular, pale in comparison from a sharing/learning experience point of view.

Craig -

In case you haven't figured it out by now, autograph collectors are, to put it kindly, a little "different" than most collectors. I'll certainly put myself in this category.

Honestly I don't know why, but it is true. We take on projects we can never complete - like complete runs of signed trading cards, or everyone whoever played for a team or sport, knowing full well that there are no known examples of some autographs and such projects will never be completed. We argue over authenticity and who signs/who doesn't.

It was a very tight-knit community once, maybe back in the 1980s and before, we were shunned by the card collectors, despised by the memorabilia collectors but we got our kicks hanging out all day at ballparks and hotels and trading envelopes full of duplicates through the mail to people we never met. Yeah, we bought and sold too, ten cents a pop for commons and a Maris might run you $3.00.

I think there is also a bit of bitterness in us hard-core graphers. We all hate, absolutely hate the passing off of forgeries. For me, it was attending and selling at shows in the early 1990s, when guys I'd never seen at the ballparks or hotels suddenly had binders full of all the big names - Mantle, Dimaggio, Williams, Jordan, and bit nice looking sharpie signed pieces. Every card shop had signed stuff with COAs (from now discredited TPAs).

I could tell they were bad, but people kept buying them because they looked nice. At the time I didn't offer COA's and didn't think I needed to since I got nearly everything in person or from someone else who did.

Then the card shops started sending armies of kids out to the hotels and ballparks and ruined it for everyone.

And now, you have players charging upwards of $100 a signature and getting it.

I was priced out of the hobby long ago, I limit my collecting to the few (and new) A's, Seals and Sharks.

But I remember the older guys in the hobby who were always nice to me - Dick Dobbins, Stan Marks, Will Davis, Steve Brunner, Bill Zekus, Mike Wheat, Bill Corcoran, Ron Gordon, Doug McWilliams and Hall of Famer Nick Peters just to name a few...and I always feel a responsibility to follow their example and help out when I can.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't let the drama put you off, hard as that may be. Some of this stuff is like a soap opera, you hate yourself for watching/reading, but you want to see how it turns out.

Maybe some of us old-timers who are a little too quiet here should post about some of our experiences. I'm a little reluctant as Jim Stinson's stories and writing ability put mine to shame, but I'll have a go at it, assuming anyone want to hear about the "good old days".

[Leon]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

Craig -

In case you haven't figured it out by now, autograph collectors are, to put it kindly, a little "different" than most collectors. I'll certainly put myself in this category.

Honestly I don't know why, but it is true. We take on projects we can never complete - like complete runs of signed trading cards, or everyone whoever played for a team or sport, knowing full well that there are no known examples of some autographs and such projects will never be completed. We argue over authenticity and who signs/who doesn't.

It was a very tight-knit community once, maybe back in the 1980s and before, we were shunned by the card collectors, despised by the memorabilia collectors but we got our kicks hanging out all day at ballparks and hotels and trading envelopes full of duplicates through the mail to people we never met. Yeah, we bought and sold too, ten cents a pop for commons and a Maris might run you $3.00.

I think there is also a bit of bitterness in us hard-core graphers. We all hate, absolutely hate the passing off of forgeries. For me, it was attending and selling at shows in the early 1990s, when guys I'd never seen at the ballparks or hotels suddenly had binders full of all the big names - Mantle, Dimaggio, Williams, Jordan, and bit nice looking sharpie signed pieces. Every card shop had signed stuff with COAs (from now discredited TPAs).

I could tell they were bad, but people kept buying them because they looked nice. At the time I didn't offer COA's and didn't think I needed to since I got nearly everything in person or from someone else who did.

Then the card shops started sending armies of kids out to the hotels and ballparks and ruined it for everyone.

And now, you have players charging upwards of $100 a signature and getting it.

I was priced out of the hobby long ago, I limit my collecting to the few (and new) A's, Seals and Sharks.

But I remember the older guys in the hobby who were always nice to me - Dick Dobbins, Stan Marks, Will Davis, Steve Brunner, Bill Zekus, Mike Wheat, Bill Corcoran, Ron Gordon, Doug McWilliams and Hall of Famer Nick Peters just to name a few...and I always feel a responsibility to follow their example and help out when I can.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't let the drama put you off, hard as that may be. Some of this stuff is like a soap opera, you hate yourself for watching/reading, but you want to see how it turns out.

Maybe some of us old-timers who are a little too quiet here should post about some of our experiences. I'm a little reluctant as Jim Stinson's stories and writing ability put mine to shame, but I'll have a go at it, assuming anyone want to hear about the "good old days".

I think more people than you think would love to hear about the old days, if you care to share. I enjoy hearing of collecting autos, even though I don't collect them, and would certainly enjoy any stories shared.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think more people than you think would love to hear about the old days, if you care to share. I enjoy hearing of collecting autos, even though I don't collect them, and would certainly enjoy any stories shared.

+1

Moosedog, I would love to hear your stories, and I am sure a lot of the other collectors my age would feel the same.

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

Craig -

In case you haven't figured it out by now, autograph collectors are, to put it kindly, a little "different" than most collectors. I'll certainly put myself in this category.

Honestly I don't know why, but it is true. We take on projects we can never complete - like complete runs of signed trading cards, or everyone whoever played for a team or sport, knowing full well that there are no known examples of some autographs and such projects will never be completed. We argue over authenticity and who signs/who doesn't.

It was a very tight-knit community once, maybe back in the 1980s and before, we were shunned by the card collectors, despised by the memorabilia collectors but we got our kicks hanging out all day at ballparks and hotels and trading envelopes full of duplicates through the mail to people we never met. Yeah, we bought and sold too, ten cents a pop for commons and a Maris might run you $3.00.

I think there is also a bit of bitterness in us hard-core graphers. We all hate, absolutely hate the passing off of forgeries. For me, it was attending and selling at shows in the early 1990s, when guys I'd never seen at the ballparks or hotels suddenly had binders full of all the big names - Mantle, Dimaggio, Williams, Jordan, and bit nice looking sharpie signed pieces. Every card shop had signed stuff with COAs (from now discredited TPAs).

I could tell they were bad, but people kept buying them because they looked nice. At the time I didn't offer COA's and didn't think I needed to since I got nearly everything in person or from someone else who did.

Then the card shops started sending armies of kids out to the hotels and ballparks and ruined it for everyone.

And now, you have players charging upwards of $100 a signature and getting it.

I was priced out of the hobby long ago, I limit my collecting to the few (and new) A's, Seals and Sharks.

But I remember the older guys in the hobby who were always nice to me - Dick Dobbins, Stan Marks, Will Davis, Steve Brunner, Bill Zekus, Mike Wheat, Bill Corcoran, Ron Gordon, Doug McWilliams and Hall of Famer Nick Peters just to name a few...and I always feel a responsibility to follow their example and help out when I can.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't let the drama put you off, hard as that may be. Some of this stuff is like a soap opera, you hate yourself for watching/reading, but you want to see how it turns out.

Maybe some of us old-timers who are a little too quiet here should post about some of our experiences. I'm a little reluctant as Jim Stinson's stories and writing ability put mine to shame, but I'll have a go at it, assuming anyone want to hear about the "good old days".

Thank you very much!!! If the sincerity and tone that is so obvious in your post were adopted by other auto threads it would be a welcome addition. Perhaps it is the nature of the beast (I don't really collect autos, except for a few Mantles from years ago), but I also hate forgers in any segment of the hobby and I am just trying to learn as much as I can in this new(for me) area of collecting.

Let me join with Leon and say that I also would love to hear more about the "good old days".

Thanks again.

Craig

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by Frozen in Time

Thank you very much!!! If the sincerity and tone that is so obvious in your post were adopted by other auto threads it would be a welcome addition. Perhaps it is the nature of the beast (I don't really collect autos, except for a few Mantles from years ago), but I also hate forgers in any segment of the hobby and I am just trying to learn as much as I can in this new(for me) area of collecting.

Let me join with Leon and say that I also would love to hear more about the "good old days".

Thanks again.

Craig

Thank you to Craig and Moosedog for ending this thread on a high note.