Desert Shield

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Mcadams,

Wouldn't the corrected version...if it exists in the Desert Shield set mean that the set was printed later in the print run or after the 1991 Topps set? I will show the variations at appear to exist in the 1991 set but aren't found in the Desert Shield set when I can tomorrow?

Z Wheat

You may have read that wrong. He was saying that the error(136) is the version in the the DS set.. And that the corrected(135) wasn't, leading him to believe it was from an early print run.

Originally Posted by mcadams

Because the 135 was the corrected version, I've always believe the Desert Shield set was actually made early in Topps printing process, prior to the Lonnie Smith 135G (The "Corrected" version) being printed. I'd love to hear other thoughts.

Corrected or not, Either way, I wouldn't expect there to be variations in the DS release. Sure in the regular issue they're variations(error, corrected, whatnot). But in terms of the DS set, whichever version it is, it's just the card..

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by novakjr

You may have read that wrong. He was saying that the error(136) is the version in the the DS set.. And that the corrected(135) wasn't, leading him to believe it was from an early print run.



Corrected or not, Either way, I wouldn't expect there to be variations in the DS release. Sure in the regular issue they're variations(error, corrected, whatnot). But in terms of the DS set, whichever version it is, it's just the card..

Got it. One of the dangers of reading small print on an iPad. I will have to check the remainder of my cards. The 2 Lonnie Smith cards (Card #306) I have also have "...136 Games...".

It may be hard to verify much of what we speculate since the population of cards is so small. If the print run was in the 2,000-2,500 sets according to popular belief, then that would make the population of each card no greater than a third to quarter as numerous as some of the popular pre-war sets like the Cracker Jacks.

[Zach Wheat]

I've sorted my variations into both the "correct" year end stats & "incorrect" year end stats that were later corrected by Topps. Variations seem to be with both correct & incorrect YE stats - but not both for the same card. Further, while I was digging for information that might help me determine when DS cards were printed I ran across a couple of articles.

The articles were both from Jan 1992 and both articles indicate higher production figures (5.4 million) for this set than has been previously presumed to exist (2,500 sets or approx. 2 million cards). An AP article published in the Sun Sentinel Jan. 1992 indicates Topps produced 5,400,00 cards for overseas delivery - but they arrived too late to be distributed. Accordingly, the Air Force sent back 1,500,00 cards to the Myrtle Beach Air Force Base - a central shipping site during the conflict - and distributed them locally, with each of the base's 3,330 active personnel receiving 30 packs. Collectors would wait outside the gates of the base trying to buy cards, which would sell at a premium as collector's knew this was a "rare" variation. This probably accounts for a lot of the cards seen in the US today.

A 2nd article in the Chicago Tribune Jan 1992 also indicates the same 5,400,00 production figure and includes comments from Timm Boyle - a Topps spokesperson - who estimated that a third to half of the 5.4 million Desert Shield baseball cards produced were returned the US. It is not clear if he is referencing only cards returned by the military due to the late delivery or if his estimate includes total cards returned by the military as well as cards saved & brought back by individual military personnel. However his comments seem to support the contention that DS cards were produced at one time and then distributed en masse. This could account for why - to date - we see only 1 "variation" of the traditional 1991 Topps set.

Just thought I would share this additional information. Comments or thoughts?


Z Wheat

[ALR-bishop]

Good info Zach. It had been my impression the majority of the DS cards never made it over seas, and that many did not even make it into the military supply chain. But I have no personal knowledge or hard fact about that.

There are of course a good many DS fakes out there too and it would seem if any variations are found one would have to be sure it is an actual DS card.

[4reals]

I've looked into it quite extensively myself. As a Dodgers collector I have particular interest in the Valenzuela #80 card. I will say this...DO NOT trust the PSA pop report. Based on it there are many err/corr variations within the DS set and all I've seen are cards with mislabeled slabs. Aside from the Fernando card, the McGwire correct variation (.618) has been notoriously subject to this.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by 4reals

I've looked into it quite extensively myself. As a Dodgers collector I have particular interest in the Valenzuela #80 card. I will say this...DO NOT trust the PSA pop report. Based on it there are many err/corr variations within the DS set and all I've seen are cards with mislabeled slabs. Aside from the Fernando card, the McGwire correct variation (.618) has been notoriously subject to this.

Joe,

Are you suggesting you have not seen "any" or "many" error cards with the corresponding corrections? I believe you are stating you have only seen either the error or corrected card, but not both. If that is the case, I tend to agree with you. I have gone through approx. 2,000 Desert Shield cards and have not been able to confirm any of the noted error cards AND the corrected cards. I am not saying they don't exist - just that if they exist, they must be rare.

The only card I have been able to find with an error /corrected version is card #685 (Doug Drabek) - which actually is more of a printing variation than an error. The card (see below) has a "black" border and a "gray" border. Further the card has a different shade of gray banner behind the "Pirates" name on the front of the card. The differences are significant when you compare the card side-by-side.

Additionally, I was able to acquire 11 uncut full sheets of Desert Shield cards showing sheets A-F, with 2 copies of most sheets. Sheet F has the checklists - which believe it or not - has checklists without foil stamped logo's. The checklists were in the middle of the sheet, bottom row. Two of the checklists (#131 & #656) are consistent with the other cards I have checked and show only the Bradley & Polacios variations. I was surprised to find actual unstamped checklists on the actual sheets. I always thought checklists were just normal 1991 Topps cards replete with error & corrected information. If anyone is interested I will post pics of the sheets.

I will also post a list of the known variations identified in the 1991 set (excluding printer's mistakes) that I have checked in the next post, which were compiled from several sources.

[ALR-bishop]

Looking forward to your list Zach. I think I have more variant cards with my 1991 set than any other of my Topps sets, but I admit most are what I view as print defects

[Zach Wheat]

Following is a list of the Desert Shield variations which I have compiled from my own cards and several other sources. It is interesting to note some DS cards have correct stats while other DS cards have incorrect stats. For the most part, it seems as if most of the corrections were made prior to starting the DS print run. However, to date I have not found the error & corresponding corrected version of the card - just 1 or the other. In fact, the only variation which I have been able to confirm is the Drabek gray/black border variation previously noted.

It is also interesting to note that based on a small sample size the checklists are consistent as well. Perhaps if other printer sheets turn up, this information is a means to determine whether Desert Shield checklists are actually from the set or from the 1991 Topps regular issue set - since they are identical, other than the corrections.

Again many thanks to KeyMan Collectibles, JunkWaxGems, Beckett, PSA, CU and numerous other sources from which this information was compiled. Here are the variations I have checked against the 1991 Topps regular issue set but not found both versions of the same card:

• Card #21 Joe Morgan MGR – “87” hits; DS set has the corrected version which is “187 hits”.

• Card #22 Storm Davis – (Front) Copyright logo in Upper left corner above Topps in white border area; 1991 Topps regular issue has both. DS cards do not have the copyright logo.

• Card #42 Chris Hoiles – (Front) Black Border white or Gray border (DS cards have gray border).

• Card #48 – Dennis Boyd – 3 Variations –left wrist covers 40th Anniv logo; airbrushed pink to blend in with logo, no black box on banner underneath “40”; DS cards have 40th Anniversary logo which covers wrist fully with black border and it appears as if the wrist is behind the border.

• Card 49A Pat Borders (DS cards have 1986 – “40 steals in Kinston”) 49B (0 Steal in Kinston)

• Card 80A Fernando Valenzuela (DS cards have In 1990 104 ER in '90 Tied League Lead “◊” Present in line)) 80B (Led League)

• Card #83 Daryl Boston (Front) Line through his position, left side of card in the top portion of “OF”;

• Card #97A Brady Anderson Box at bottom, (DS cards “In Sept 2 RBI and 3 Hits”) 97B (Set, 3 RBI and 14 Hits)

• Card #100A Don Mattingly (DS cards 10 hits in 1990) 100B (101 hits in 1990)

• Card #124 Randy Bush – No print code on back of card, bottom, to the left of 1991 Topps copyright. DS cards are corrected and have a D* Print Code.

• Card #130 (Checklist) – no Foil Shield – consistent with both DS and 1991 issue

• Card 131A Checklist 1 (DS cards have #727 Phil Bradley) 131B (#727 Mookie Wilson); Card #727 is Mookie Wilson in actual set

• Card #153 Bryan Harvey – has A*B* print code on reverse to the left of Topps Copyright; Original DS card has A* Print Code.

• Card 155A Dwight Evans (DS cards have “In 1982, Led league w/162 games in 1982”) 155B (tied for lead.....)

• Card 167A Randy Tomlin (DS cards have 1989 & 1990 Club is “Harriburg”) 167B (Harrisburg)

• Card #189 Daryl Irvine (Back) 1988 GS has a “*” or blob; DS cards are corrected and have 14 for GS in 1988.

• Card #213 has A*B* Print Code on back of card to left of Topps copyright; Original DS card has A* )

• Card 236A Frank Tanana (DS cards have “In 1975, Tied for lead w/269 K’s” with the symbol “◊” Present in text) 236B (Lead League w/269....)

• Card #247 – Jody Reed (Bio is dark red; DS version have lighter red or pinkish box for bio.

• Card 270A Mark McGwire (DS cards have 1987 Slug % 618) 270B (1987 Slug % .618)

• Card 277 Scott Coolbaugh – (Front) DS cards have Streak on left side of hat; streak is airbrushed out.

• Card 279A Jose Gonzalez (Photo Billy Bean) 279B (DS cards have the correct photo)

• Card 306A Lonnie Smith (DS cards have incorrect stats stating In 1990, played in 136 Games) 396B (corrected not found in DS set and was
actually 135 Games in 1990)

• Card 324A Ron Kittle (DS cards have the last line of text @ bottom of card “…set another standard) 324B (“….tied another standard)

• Card 337A Keith Comstock (DS cards have incorrect Cubs logo on front) 337B (Mariners logo on front – Mariners is correct)

• Card 366A Checklist 3 (DS checklist has #19 as Carl Nichols) 366B (#119 Carl Nichols); #19 in Actual set is Jeff Robinson P Yankees

• Card 374 Larry Casian – Pimples on left side of neck can be seen; DS cards are corrected and have pimples airbrushed out.

• Card 378A Wilson Alvarez (89 & 90 minor league stats deleted) 378B (DS cards have minor league stats included)

• Card 454A Kevin Appier (DS cards have in the line for 1990 Omaha Stats deleted) 454B (stats included)

• Card #519 – Sparky Anderson – Back) – Bullseye covesr O in “…Anderson…” at the top of card in name. (1X is corrected); DS cards do not have this printers mark.

• Card 526A Moises Alou (DS cards show incorrect stats in the 1990 Pirates line, 37 runs in 2 games) 526B (0 Runs in 2 games)

• Card 527A Checklist 4 ((Back) DS cards on sheet incorrectly state #105 Keith Miller #719 Kevin McReyolds 527B (#105 Kevin McReyolds #719 Keith Miller). Actual DS set has #105 as McReynolds

• Card #530 Roger Clemens (Back) – Card # is pink. DS cards have not found variation.

• Card #588 Mark Whitten (Front) left hand is over or under border. DS cards have corrected – hand does not extend into white border.

• Card 593A Mike Walker (DS cards have in 1990 Canton Stats deleted 593B (Stats included) Note: Both cards have Colo. Springs Stats

• Card 599A Greg Myers (DS cards have in 1990 Syracuse stats deleted 599B (Stats included)

• Card 603A Wes Chamberlain (DS cards have incorrect photo with Louie Meadows with bat on right shoulder) 603B (correct photo –smiling no bat on shoulder),

• Card #648 Lee Stevens – Back of card; bio is dark red; DS cards have light red bio box.

• Card 656A Checklist 5 (DS checklists have corrected card numbers of #348 Palacios, #381 Lind, #537 Lavalliere) 656B (438 Palacios 537 Lind 665 Lavalliere) 656C (433 Palacios) actual 348 is stottlemeyer, Actual set has #348 is Palacios, #381 is Leyland, #537 is Lind.

• CardA 674 Kevin Gross (DS cards have in 1988 Tied for lead in BB) 674B (1988 Lead league) – looks like he led league

• Card #685 – Doug Drabek – (Front) Corrected – Gray-ish border on left & right side of card. Black broder on left & right side of card. DS cards appear to have both black & gray border, with different color team banners.

• Card 687A John Cerutti (DS cards have 4.46 ERA in 1990) 687B (4.76 ERA in 1990); 4.76 ERA is correct

• Card 692A Efrain Valdez (Born 6/11/66) 692B (DS cards have correct birthdate text stating Born 7/11/66).

• Card 706A Brad Arnsberg (DS cards have incorrect data stating 68.2 IP in 1990) 706B (62.2 IP in 1990)

• Card 780A Randy Myers (DS cards have incorrect stat line for losses - 15 Career losses) 780B (19 Career losses).


Let me know if anyone is able to find the other variation on these cards. Thanks.

ZWheat

[fyerstrtr]

Hello everyone!

I have been on EBay, Amazon, and surfing the net for years looking for anyone who has info on the uniform issue Topps baseball cards with Gold shield we received upon arrival in theatre. I have two I fished out of the trash can, and I have my pack that has never been opened. It would be interesting to find out if anyone claimed the million dollar prize for finding the completely gold card. I have my cards in a fire proof safe deposit box, and my question is does anyone have an idea how much the unopened pack is worth. All the people in my Company opened, threw away, or traded off their cards. The only reason mine weren't opened is because I completely forgot I had them!!!!!

Thanks!

[Zach Wheat]

Fyre,

Thanks for your service. Unopened Packs are selling for around $150 currently on BBCE. The issue is that regular Topps issue cards have the same exact wrapping as the DS cards. Buyers often discount the price of their packs depending upon the surety that the cards are legitimately DS cards.

For instance BBCE will guarantee their packs are legit and have a great track record. Joe XYZ with 0 feedback will have trouble getting the same price.

I can't answer your other questions but I am sure others will chime in.

Z Wheat

[scmavl]

I have a BBCE sealed pack I'll let go for $140 if anyone wants it. (sorry for the spam!)

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by fyerstrtr

Hello everyone!

I have been on EBay, Amazon, and surfing the net for years looking for anyone who has info on the uniform issue Topps baseball cards with Gold shield we received upon arrival in theatre. I have two I fished out of the trash can, and I have my pack that has never been opened. It would be interesting to find out if anyone claimed the million dollar prize for finding the completely gold card. I have my cards in a fire proof safe deposit box, and my question is does anyone have an idea how much the unopened pack is worth. All the people in my Company opened, threw away, or traded off their cards. The only reason mine weren't opened is because I completely forgot I had them!!!!!

Thanks!

Fyre,

Here is a link to redemptions to the 1991 Topps set:

http://www.baseballcardpedia.com/index.php/1991_Topps

I do not know if it comprehensive or not. The footnote on the bottom indicates the site was last updated in May 2013. As we now know, the list of variations does not apply to the DS set.

Z Wheat

[Zach Wheat]

I am back so wanted to post pics of other sheets I took when viewing the sheets. The code on the right edge, which you can't really make out at this resolution might be a serial number or a code for a date. Most of the sheets have a code that is only a couple of digits separating - with the same code repeated.

Here is sheet A

Z Wheat