Desert Shield

[Zach Wheat]

Mcadams,

Wouldn't the corrected version...if it exists in the Desert Shield set mean that the set was printed later in the print run or after the 1991 Topps set? I will show the variations at appear to exist in the 1991 set but aren't found in the Desert Shield set when I can tomorrow.

Z Wheat

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Mcadams,

Wouldn't the corrected version...if it exists in the Desert Shield set mean that the set was printed later in the print run or after the 1991 Topps set? I will show the variations at appear to exist in the 1991 set but aren't found in the Desert Shield set when I can tomorrow?

Z Wheat

You may have read that wrong. He was saying that the error(136) is the version in the the DS set.. And that the corrected(135) wasn't, leading him to believe it was from an early print run.

Originally Posted by mcadams

Because the 135 was the corrected version, I've always believe the Desert Shield set was actually made early in Topps printing process, prior to the Lonnie Smith 135G (The "Corrected" version) being printed. I'd love to hear other thoughts.

Corrected or not, Either way, I wouldn't expect there to be variations in the DS release. Sure in the regular issue they're variations(error, corrected, whatnot). But in terms of the DS set, whichever version it is, it's just the card..

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by novakjr

You may have read that wrong. He was saying that the error(136) is the version in the the DS set.. And that the corrected(135) wasn't, leading him to believe it was from an early print run.



Corrected or not, Either way, I wouldn't expect there to be variations in the DS release. Sure in the regular issue they're variations(error, corrected, whatnot). But in terms of the DS set, whichever version it is, it's just the card..

Got it. One of the dangers of reading small print on an iPad. I will have to check the remainder of my cards. The 2 Lonnie Smith cards (Card #306) I have also have "...136 Games...".

It may be hard to verify much of what we speculate since the population of cards is so small. If the print run was in the 2,000-2,500 sets according to popular belief, then that would make the population of each card no greater than a third to quarter as numerous as some of the popular pre-war sets like the Cracker Jacks.

[Zach Wheat]

I've sorted my variations into both the "correct" year end stats & "incorrect" year end stats that were later corrected by Topps. Variations seem to be with both correct & incorrect YE stats - but not both for the same card. Further, while I was digging for information that might help me determine when DS cards were printed I ran across a couple of articles.

The articles were both from Jan 1992 and both articles indicate higher production figures (5.4 million) for this set than has been previously presumed to exist (2,500 sets or approx. 2 million cards). An AP article published in the Sun Sentinel Jan. 1992 indicates Topps produced 5,400,00 cards for overseas delivery - but they arrived too late to be distributed. Accordingly, the Air Force sent back 1,500,00 cards to the Myrtle Beach Air Force Base - a central shipping site during the conflict - and distributed them locally, with each of the base's 3,330 active personnel receiving 30 packs. Collectors would wait outside the gates of the base trying to buy cards, which would sell at a premium as collector's knew this was a "rare" variation. This probably accounts for a lot of the cards seen in the US today.

A 2nd article in the Chicago Tribune Jan 1992 also indicates the same 5,400,00 production figure and includes comments from Timm Boyle - a Topps spokesperson - who estimated that a third to half of the 5.4 million Desert Shield baseball cards produced were returned the US. It is not clear if he is referencing only cards returned by the military due to the late delivery or if his estimate includes total cards returned by the military as well as cards saved & brought back by individual military personnel. However his comments seem to support the contention that DS cards were produced at one time and then distributed en masse. This could account for why - to date - we see only 1 "variation" of the traditional 1991 Topps set.

Just thought I would share this additional information. Comments or thoughts?


Z Wheat

[ALR-bishop]

Good info Zach. It had been my impression the majority of the DS cards never made it over seas, and that many did not even make it into the military supply chain. But I have no personal knowledge or hard fact about that.

There are of course a good many DS fakes out there too and it would seem if any variations are found one would have to be sure it is an actual DS card.

[4reals]

I've looked into it quite extensively myself. As a Dodgers collector I have particular interest in the Valenzuela #80 card. I will say this...DO NOT trust the PSA pop report. Based on it there are many err/corr variations within the DS set and all I've seen are cards with mislabeled slabs. Aside from the Fernando card, the McGwire correct variation (.618) has been notoriously subject to this.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by 4reals

I've looked into it quite extensively myself. As a Dodgers collector I have particular interest in the Valenzuela #80 card. I will say this...DO NOT trust the PSA pop report. Based on it there are many err/corr variations within the DS set and all I've seen are cards with mislabeled slabs. Aside from the Fernando card, the McGwire correct variation (.618) has been notoriously subject to this.

Joe,

Are you suggesting you have not seen "any" or "many" error cards with the corresponding corrections? I believe you are stating you have only seen either the error or corrected card, but not both. If that is the case, I tend to agree with you. I have gone through approx. 2,000 Desert Shield cards and have not been able to confirm any of the noted error cards AND the corrected cards. I am not saying they don't exist - just that if they exist, they must be rare.

The only card I have been able to find with an error /corrected version is card #685 (Doug Drabek) - which actually is more of a printing variation than an error. The card (see below) has a "black" border and a "gray" border. Further the card has a different shade of gray banner behind the "Pirates" name on the front of the card. The differences are significant when you compare the card side-by-side.

Additionally, I was able to acquire 11 uncut full sheets of Desert Shield cards showing sheets A-F, with 2 copies of most sheets. Sheet F has the checklists - which believe it or not - has checklists without foil stamped logo's. The checklists were in the middle of the sheet, bottom row. Two of the checklists (#131 & #656) are consistent with the other cards I have checked and show only the Bradley & Polacios variations. I was surprised to find actual unstamped checklists on the actual sheets. I always thought checklists were just normal 1991 Topps cards replete with error & corrected information. If anyone is interested I will post pics of the sheets.

I will also post a list of the known variations identified in the 1991 set (excluding printer's mistakes) that I have checked in the next post, which were compiled from several sources.

[fyerstrtr]

Hello everyone!

I have been on EBay, Amazon, and surfing the net for years looking for anyone who has info on the uniform issue Topps baseball cards with Gold shield we received upon arrival in theatre. I have two I fished out of the trash can, and I have my pack that has never been opened. It would be interesting to find out if anyone claimed the million dollar prize for finding the completely gold card. I have my cards in a fire proof safe deposit box, and my question is does anyone have an idea how much the unopened pack is worth. All the people in my Company opened, threw away, or traded off their cards. The only reason mine weren't opened is because I completely forgot I had them!!!!!

Thanks!

[Zach Wheat]

Fyre,

Thanks for your service. Unopened Packs are selling for around $150 currently on BBCE. The issue is that regular Topps issue cards have the same exact wrapping as the DS cards. Buyers often discount the price of their packs depending upon the surety that the cards are legitimately DS cards.

For instance BBCE will guarantee their packs are legit and have a great track record. Joe XYZ with 0 feedback will have trouble getting the same price.

I can't answer your other questions but I am sure others will chime in.

Z Wheat

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by fyerstrtr

Hello everyone!

I have been on EBay, Amazon, and surfing the net for years looking for anyone who has info on the uniform issue Topps baseball cards with Gold shield we received upon arrival in theatre. I have two I fished out of the trash can, and I have my pack that has never been opened. It would be interesting to find out if anyone claimed the million dollar prize for finding the completely gold card. I have my cards in a fire proof safe deposit box, and my question is does anyone have an idea how much the unopened pack is worth. All the people in my Company opened, threw away, or traded off their cards. The only reason mine weren't opened is because I completely forgot I had them!!!!!

Thanks!

Fyre,

Here is a link to redemptions to the 1991 Topps set:

http://www.baseballcardpedia.com/index.php/1991_Topps

I do not know if it comprehensive or not. The footnote on the bottom indicates the site was last updated in May 2013. As we now know, the list of variations does not apply to the DS set.

Z Wheat