Brooklyn CDV

[oldjudge]

Troy--if someone purchases the CdV and goes through the additional testing and the result is that it is not period, does that person have the right to get a full refund?

Thanks---Jay

[Bugsy]

I appreciate an auction house willing to come on here and thoroughly discuss an item they will be listing. I wish more would be willing to do so, although the way this thread has gone recently, I can't blame them for not wanting to.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't read Scott's posts as accusing anyone of dishonesty. I read him as simply making the point that the expert identified additional tests that could be done to provide a more definitive opinion on authenticity, that those tests have not been done and will not be done before the auction, and that therefore some question by definition remains.

[bmarlowe1]

I agree with Peter. After spending a considerable amount of time responding to what Scott did not say, hopefully Troy will spend just a bit of time responding to what Jay (oldjudge) did say.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

I agree with Peter. After spending a considerable amount of time responding to what Scott did not say, hopefully Troy will spend just a bit of time responding to what Jay (oldjudge) did say.

+1. Jay's question needs a response.

[benjulmag]

There is nothing inappropriate about prospective bidders in a respectful manner asking an auction house penetrating questions about an item for which it is soliciting six-figure bids, especially when legitimate red flags have been raised and especially in a hobby riddled with high price forgeries. Saco River Auctions to its credit took the item to Paul Messier for examination. Clearly what the hobby was waiting to hear from Mr. Messier was his opinion whether the item was real, not some meaningless statement that the item is consistent with 19th century albumen photos. I can tomorrow create a CdV of the 1865 Atlantics, present it to Mr. Messier, and get an identical statement from him. Mr. Messier all but invites that additional testing be done. The consigner declines, not wanting to risk damage to the CdV. Fine, that is his decision to make, though if he is that certain the item is real, given the thinness of the market at that price level and the significant impact the addition of just one well-heeled bidder can make to the realized price, I'm not certain he is making the correct decision. I can also understand the auction house's reluctance to allow prospective bidders to inundate Mr. Messier with calls, though I still don't see why a one-time call-in period moderated by Troy, when he can filter calls from people he does not feel are legitimate bidders, is not a workable idea. So then I respectfully ask the following of Saco River Auctions. Could you please ask Mr. Messier to answer the following question, and relay his answer to the Board: "In your opinion was the Atlantics CdV printed in the 19th century?" When answering he is to choose one of the following answers: A. EXTREMELY LIKELY, B. LIKELY, C. POSSIBLY, D. UNLIKELY, E. EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.

I have little doubt Mr. Messier, having had the item in hand, has an opinion as to whether it is real and I believe prospective bidders have a right to know what that opinion is. On a personal level I would love it if he opined it is real, but I need to hear that from him.

[Saco River Auction]

Hello guys I was a little delayed on this because I was away from the pc for a while. First to jay. I will be calling you with follow up info regarding the official policy on this card. For all of you i am going to post sra's policy on this sale as well as any guarantees that my experts are willing to make. We will be crafting a joint policy on this matter which will clearly define the terms of the sale prior to the bidding beginning on this item.
To Corey. I will be contacting mr. Messier on Monday and I will pose that question to him and get you all an appropriate answer. I will also try to formulate a plan for bidders who are signed up for this sale to be authorized to speak with him if he is willing and has the time.
Troy

[benjulmag]

Thank you Troy. I very much appreciate your responsiveness to my post.

[oldjudge]

Thanks Troy. Mine was a simple question and I would hope that when you post you cold post a simple answer to it. There is no need to call.

[cyseymour]

nm

[goudeygold]

Do we really think REA/Legendary/etc... would do a destructive analysis if they were selling it? Would they be making dozens of posts jumping through hoops for anyone asking to do so on a public message board? Of course not.

I think I'd be saying if you aren't comfortable, please don't bid at this point if I was the AH.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The AH's responsibility is to get the highest bid for its consignor. If it sees there are significant questions from potential bidders in what is likely a very thinly traded market, it certainly should address them, as Saco River appears to be doing.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by goudeygold

Do we really think REA/Legendary/etc... would do a destructive analysis if they were selling it? Would they be making dozens of posts jumping through hoops for anyone asking to do so on a public message board? Of course not.

I think I'd be saying if you aren't comfortable, please don't bid at this point if I was the AH.

You guys act like they have to cut the card in two to do tests on it. It's already beat up around the edges, so I'm sure a fiber can be taken without hurting it.

[GaryPassamonte]

Troy-Answering Jay with a simple yes or no on this thread would go a long way to resolving this. If you are certain the CdV is genuine, the answer is easy.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Troy--if someone purchases the CdV and goes through the additional testing and the result is that it is not period, does that person have the right to get a full refund?

Thanks---Jay

The question I would ask is if the auction house would, at the instruction of the winning bidder, send the CdV to Mr. Messier for the additional testing before payment is tendered? I think it would be a smart business decision to make, as it might induce people to bid who otherwise would be reluctant due to concerns about the authenticity of the item and the risk that the refund might not be readily forthcoming.