1907-1910 Weiser Wonder - Walter Johnson PC, new to the hobby

[packs]

There are a lot of sets with cards printed of players who no longer play for the team or even the league. The Mayo set features retired players, for example. Along with Play Ball and that strip set that has Mathewson in it long after he'd retired. I realize these aren't postcards though. But it would be a lot to brag about if you had Walter first, especially if you're an amateur team.

[prewarsports]

He was a big deal in Weiser, but I live 30 miles from Weiser, it is not a big city by any means. Half the small cities in America had a "Weiser Wonder" type phenom around 1905-1907 (obviously not as good as Johnson but to their small towns at the time there were similar type players). If this postcard had been produced IN WEISER then you would see almost all of them with Idaho postmarks right? How many have ever been found with Idaho postmarks? Zero to my knowledge. SO this is a postcard that had National Distribution. Who would bother to make a postcard Nationally from a rookie who hadn't made it big yet? Nobody would unless it was issued locally in Idaho which there is no way it was given the circumstantial evidence. So who would make a Nationally distributed postcard of a ballplayer celebrating his humble roots? Someone who wanted to capitalize on that players superstardom. So it is a sure bet that this was made after Johnson attained his stardom and was attempting to show his humble roots with a 1907 photo that they had to issue with a copyright date on it of when it was taken.

To me this is a settled issue and I have done a lot of research into the subject as I have visited Weiser on many occasions and live in the area. There is simply no way this postcard was produced in the Weiser area or Idaho in general, its a 1909-1910 postcard at the earliest until someone finds one with an earlier postmark.

Rhys

[Leon]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

He was a big deal in Weiser, but I live 30 miles from Weiser, it is not a big city by any means. Half the small cities in America had a "Weiser Wonder" type phenom around 1905-1907 (obviously not as good as Johnson but to their small towns at the time there were similar type players). If this postcard had been produced IN WEISER then you would see almost all of them with Idaho postmarks right? How many have ever been found with Idaho postmarks? Zero to my knowledge. SO this is a postcard that had National Distribution. Who would bother to make a postcard Nationally from a rookie who hadn't made it big yet? Nobody would unless it was issued locally in Idaho which there is no way it was given the circumstantial evidence. So who would make a Nationally distributed postcard of a ballplayer celebrating his humble roots? Someone who wanted to capitalize on that players superstardom. So it is a sure bet that this was made after Johnson attained his stardom and was attempting to show his humble roots with a 1907 photo that they had to issue with a copyright date on it of when it was taken.

To me this is a settled issue and I have done a lot of research into the subject as I have visited Weiser on many occasions and live in the area. There is simply no way this postcard was produced in the Weiser area or Idaho in general, its a 1909-1910 postcard at the earliest until someone finds one with an earlier postmark.

Rhys

Actually the latest it can be is 1910, not the earliest. Just going by the evidence we have and not conjecture. I think anytime between 1907 and 1910 is feasible until I see more evidence other than theory. I also think it could have been distributed from the Weiser area. This one shown was certainly mailed from there. Most people weighing in thought this was from the teens until now. When/if one is found with a 1908 postmark the argument will change again.

[ValKehl]

I suspect that we won't have to wait very long to see another example of this WaJo PC, hopefully one with a readable postmark, in a major auction. The recent Legendary Auction had a special grouping devoted to Kent Feddeman's fabulous Washington Senators collection, and it contained some great WaJo PCs, but not a "Weiser Wonder" PC. I believe the final installment of Feddeman's collection will be presented in Legendary's first 2013 auction, and I'll be surprised if it doesn't contain a "Weiser Wonder" PC, because Doug Allen told me that Legendary tried to split Feddeman's collection equally as to types of items between the two auction installments.
Val

[Hankphenom]

My guess is that this postcard was produced and sold locally (Weiser, Boise, or somewhere else in Idaho) at some time between late 1907 and 1910. I don't see a national product touting him as the "Weiser Wonder." And I wouldn't hold out hope for an example from the Feddeman collection. He didn't pursue cards or postcards aggressively, just picking them up on occasion when the opportunity presented and the price was right. Much more of a memorabilia and photo guy.

[prewarsports]

I understand what you are saying Leon as the postcard had to manufactured before the date on the card, but absent business records from the company that made the card, we have to go by postmarks or dates next a postcard glued in a scrapbook or some circumstantial evidence.

So the only concrete evidence (speaking scientifically) we have to go on is that

The earliest it can ABSOLUETLY be dated would be the earliest postmark we have (right now 1910). This can obviously change with new specimens.


The latest it can absolutelyy be dated would be the latest postmark (1918 or something).



I would bet these were made between 1909/1910 and just kept being made as long as people bought them and eventually as the demand fell off, they stopped making them, probably around 1920.

Still, no way this is from his time in Weiser.

Rhys

[prewarsports]

Hank

I respectfully disagree. I dont think there is any way this was made in Idaho. I collect Idaho postcards and they almost all have Idaho postmarks, people bought them locally and mailed them from the area they bought them. These were tiny rural and mining areas and before mass transit there is not really any way someone buys a Walter Johnson postcard in Weiser, Idaho in 1907 and then somehow gets it to Chicago to use three years later. To my knowledge not a single one has a Wesier postmark or Fruitland or Payette or ANY of the other towns in the area. I dont even know off hand of a single one with an Idaho postmark at all (there could be though).

There are literally thousands of paostcards issued in the 1910's and 1920's that harken to the roots of famous people, especially politicians and celebrities like Lindberg etc. It would not be at all unusual to make a postcard of Walter Johnson touting his humble beginnings in Weiser to sell to the people around the World that were fascinated by star power.

I know you have been to Weiser, but to those that have not, you have to understand how rural and how isolated these little towns in Western, Idaho are and to get there in 1907 was no small feat and I can absolutely promise you that if these were made locally, they would have been mailed locally, and if they were mailed locally the vast majority would have Western Idaho or Eastern Oregon postmarks and they simply dont. The example posted here is the only one I know of with an Idaho postmark.

Just my opinion from the resident Weiser, Idaho area amatuer historian.

Rhys

[Leon]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Hank

I respectfully disagree. I dont think there is any way this was made in Idaho. I collect Idaho postcards and they almost all have Idaho postmarks, people bought them locally and mailed them from the area they bought them. These were tiny rural and mining areas and before mass transit there is not really any way someone buys a Walter Johnson postcard in Weiser, Idaho in 1907 and then somehow gets it to Chicago to use three years later. To my knowledge not a single one has a Wesier postmark or Fruitland or Payette or ANY of the other towns in the area. I dont even know off hand of a single one with an Idaho postmark at all (there could be though).

There are literally thousands of paostcards issued in the 1910's and 1920's that harken to the roots of famous people, especially politicians and celebrities like Lindberg etc. It would not be at all unusual to make a postcard of Walter Johnson touting his humble beginnings in Weiser to sell to the people around the World that were fascinated by star power.

I know you have been to Weiser, but to those that have not, you have to understand how rural and how isolated these little towns in Western, Idaho are and to get there in 1907 was no small feat and I can absolutely promise you that if these were made locally, they would have been mailed locally, and if they were mailed locally the vast majority would have Western Idaho or Eastern Oregon postmarks and they simply dont. The example posted here is the only one I know of with an Idaho postmark.

Just my opinion from the resident Weiser, Idaho area amatuer historian.

Rhys

Rhys- You did see this one with the Weiser postmark, correct?

[Hankphenom]

The only two examples I'm aware of--Leon's and the one from Walter's scrapbooks, came from Weiser. There is another style of this postcard, by the way, sepia with cursive writing at the bottom, that I've seen auctioned recently, perhaps a couple of different examples. I wonder what the postmarks showed on those?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

The only two examples I'm aware of--Leon's and the one from Walter's scrapbooks, came from Weiser. There is another style of this postcard, by the way, sepia with cursive writing at the bottom, that I've seen auctioned recently, perhaps a couple of different examples. I wonder what the postmarks showed on those?

Hank,

The WaJo you pictured in your post appears to be from the White Border Era (1915 - 1930.) It was quite common during the earlier part of this range of dates for postcards to be released which were reprints of earlier Divided Back Era cards, easily distinguished by the white border around the image, and typically of inferior quality.

I would likely be able to dig up a bit more info regarding postmarks if I had an idea of what auction it was featured in. If you would please let me know, I would greatly appreciate it.

Best Regards,

Eric