Comparison of checklists for T215-1 RED CROSS set vs "PIRATE" set

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Smith began the 1912 season with Cincinnati and was sold to Montreal in June.

Thanks Tim

Sincerely, Clayton

[Abravefan11]

Here are some key cards that show the differences between the T215-1 RC and Pirate sets.

This group shows subjects that were printed with Red Cross and then later updated for the Pirate set.

Neal Ball
In the RC set his team designation is Cleveland and in the Pirate set it’s Boston American. Ball was purchased by Boston from Cleveland June 25, 1912.

Solly Hofman
In the RC set his team designation is Chicago Nat’l and in the Pirate set it’s Pittsburgh. Hofman was traded to Pittsburgh from Chicago on May 30, 1912.

Harry Krause
In the RC set his team designation is Philadelphia Amer. and in the Pirate set it’s Cleveland. Krause was sold from Philadelphia to Cleveland in July 1912.

Lefty Leifield
In the RC set his team designation is Pittsburgh and in the Pirate set it’s Chicago Nat’l. Leifield was traded from Pittsburgh to Chicago May 30, 1912.

Barney Pelty
In the RC set his team designation is St. Louis Amer. And in the Pirate set it’s Washington. Pelty was sold by St. Louis to Washington June 11, 1912.



This group is the opposite of the one above. The Pirate team designations reflect where the subject played prior to where they played on the Red Cross designation.

Harry Lord
In the RC set his team designation is Chicago Amer. and in the Pirate set it’s Boston Amer. Lord was traded from Boston to Chicago August 9, 1910.

Topsy Hartsel
In the RC set his team designation is Toledo and in the Pirate set it’s Philadelphia Amer. Hartsel played for Philadelphia in 1911 and managed Toledo in 1912.

Harry Steinfeldt
In the RC set his team designation is St. Louis Nat’l and in the Pirate set it’s Chicago Nat’l. Steinfeldt played for Cubs in 1911 and was purchased by St. Paul in June of that year. He was signed by St. Louis in March 1912.

Gabby Street
In the RC set his team designation is NY Nat’l and in the Pirate set it’s Washington. Street was traded by Washington to New York February 17, 1912.

[Abravefan11]

One other subject that is important to the Pirate set is Bobby Byrne. There are two variations of this card. One with a Pittsburgh team caption and the other with a St. Louis team caption. Byrne was traded from St. Louis to Pittsburgh in August 1909. The early Pirate printing appears to be a reuse of the T206 images exactly as they were. The later Pirate printing appears to have been updated to where players were the second half of 1912.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

It's my opinion that all of the T215-1's were issued in 1912. A year after the conclusion of the T206 set and after the breakup of the ATC trust.

Hey Tim

You are waffling....a week ago (per above quote), you stated that all the RED CROSS cards were produced in a single printing.

So, what makes you agree with what most of us veteran collectors have always known ? That the evidence clearly indicates that there was a 1910 printing,
followed by a Spring 1912 printing of the T215-1 cards ?

You reminds us of a Massachusetts politician who first voted against a bill, then voted for it


Whatever, it surely is appreciated the team change info that you have provided. It was the reason that motivated me to start this thread.
But, I have a question....have all these team changes been confirmed on actual cards, or are some hearsay ?

Furthermore, it is my understanding that a total of 96 subjects were printed and issued in the RED CROSS set. Your list is missing 4 subjects.
Any of the following are possible candidates........

Evans
Evers
Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago NL)
Matty McIntyre (Detroit)
Mitchell
Summers
Thomas


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

So, what makes you agree with what most of us veteran collectors have always known ? That the evidence clearly indicates that there was a 1910 printing,
followed by a Spring 1912 printing of the T215-1 cards ?

I don't agree that any of the T215-1's were printed in 1910. I still believe the same thing that's in my quote you referenced. I'm not sure what led you to draw the conclusion that I have changed my opinion, but I haven't.

[ullmandds]

I recently won this t215-1 byrne...as I collect this pose of Byrne with different Louisiana brand backs...so what would the difference between this one and the other Pitt printing? So there is no t215-1 St Louis Byrne as Ted suggests?

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I recently won this t215-1 byrne...as I collect this pose of Byrne with different Louisiana brand backs...so what would the difference between this one and the other Pitt printing? So there is no t215-1 St Louis Byrne as Ted suggests?

Peter - If a St. Louis Byrne is out there I haven't seen it. I'd admittedly be surprised if there was a St. Louis variation, but anything is possible.

[ullmandds]

well I'm kinda hoping there is not a byrne st louis out there too!!!!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

One other subject that is important to the Pirate set is Bobby Byrne. There are two variations of this card. One with a Pittsburgh team caption and the other with a St. Louis team caption. Byrne was traded from St. Louis to Pittsburgh in August 1909. The early Pirate printing appears to be a reuse of the T206 images exactly as they were. The later Pirate printing appears to have been updated to where players were the second half of 1912.

You clearly mention two series printings here. And, to deny that there were two series printings of the RED CROSS issue is flawed thinking.

I reiterate my question from my previous post...."But, I have a question....have all these team changes been confirmed on actual cards, or are some hearsay ?

I ask you this, because I have seen RED CROSS Bobby Byrne with a St Louis NL caption.

But, your list says Pittsburg....something is not jiving here.


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

You clearly mention two series printings here. And, to deny that there were two series printings of the RED CROSS issue is flawed thinking.

I'm not denying that there were two printings of T215-1's. I have stated on this board that I believe there were two, both in 1912.

Originally Posted by tedzan

I reiterate my question from my previous post...."But, I have a question....have all these team changes been confirmed on actual cards, or are some hearsay ?

I ask you this, because I have seen RED CROSS Bobby Byrne with a St Louis NL caption.

But, your list says Pittsburg....something is not jiving here.


TED Z

You can verify the Byrne T215-1 Pittsburgh by looking at post #17 just before yours.