Tuesday Nite Trivia......

[Peter_Spaeth]

Back in the day it was much, much harder to make the HOF; it was reserved for the truly top-tier, all-time great types. Even Duke Snider, who perhaps is one step up from Mize, didn't come close for years. Certainly Mize is more than deserving under the standards that predominate today, and his career stats would have been even more impressive but for the three years he lost to WW II.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Back in the day it was much, much harder to make the HOF; it was reserved for the truly top-tier, all-time great types. Even Duke Snider, who perhaps is one step up from Mize, didn't come close for years.

Peter......and, anyone else here that may find this interesting

This is somewhat true, as there was a long queue. The Duke of Flatbush was inducted into the HOF 11 years after he was eligible. But, Johnny Mize had to wait 23 years.

November 1981......
I was fortunate to be set-up at a table adjacent to Johnny at the Meadowlands (NJ) BB card show. He was the star signing guest. I congratulated him for being inducted
into the HOF. He tersely responded with.... "It's about time".
I changed Johnny's demeanor by thanking him for his great performance in the 1952 World Series, where he single-handedly crushed the Dodgers with 3 game-winning HR's
(and was awarded the W.S. MVP). Johnny particularly appreciated my remembering that he had hit what would have been a "4th HR", that Carl Furillo reached into the RF
stands at Yankee Stadium and stole it. For approx. 3 hours we engaged in some very interesting conversations...."talking baseball". After which, Johnny invited me to visit
with him if I was traveling near Demorest, GA.

March 1987......
Leaving the Great Smokey Mtn. area on our way to Florida, I drove to Demorest, GA and visited with Johnny. Johnny remembered me and was very cordial....we talked for
some time. One aspect of his career that always struck my curiosity was why he was traded twice during his great years with the Cardinals and the Giants, respectively.
Johnny told me.....he approached Southworth in 1941 for a raise, and told him "pay me or trade me". Southworth traded him to the Giants.
At the start of 1949, Johnny asked Durocher....."pay me or trade me". That Summer, the Yankees gained the talents of the "The Big Cat" thru their 5-year dynasty (1949
thru 1953).

Johnny was a proud man that knew his talents and didn't let certain Managers get in his way. However, Casey Stengel was one smart Manager who appreciated Big John.





TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bill James rates Mize (as of 2003 when he last did his list) as the #62 player of all time, which includes Negro Leaguers. He ranks Mize ahead of, for example, Carew, Killebrew, Greenberg, Clemente(!), and Banks.

Somehow, I doubt that 30 years from now one will be able to sit down and talk baseball with any of today's players the way Ted talked to Mize.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bill James rates Mize (as of 2003 when he last did his list) as the #62 player of all time, which includes Negro Leaguers. He ranks Mize ahead of, for example, Carew, Killebrew, Greenberg, Clemente(!), and Banks.

Somehow, I doubt that 30 years from now one will be able to sit down and talk baseball with any of today's players the way Ted talked to Mize.

Peter

I don't always agree with Bill James.....in this instance I do, regarding Johnny Mize. I would guess that Bill James (being a disciple of sabermetric analysis) appreciates Mize's
amazing On-Base percentage of .400

The 1950 American League race came down to a very tight contest between the Yankees, Detroit, Boston and Cleveland. I closely followed the 1950 season watching TV
and listening to my electronic tube radio. I vaguely recall Johnny Mize hitting 3 consecutive HR's in the late September drive against the Tigers. This was the 6th time in his
career he hit 3 in a game. A record which still stands today.

Regarding my conversations with Johnny, I wish that I had recorded them. Big John was a delight to talk with. Fortunately, I recall some of the highlights (as told in Post 23).

A final note, Mize (as did Ted Williams) had "run-ins" with quite a number of sportswriters which probably prevented him from being inducted into the HOF in his earlier years.



TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ted, Bill James does have some strange opinions, like the one he offered in his 2003 book that Craig Biggio was much better than Ken Griffey Jr., or his view that both Clemente and Banks are vastly overrated. While his book is a must read, the problem with it is that the depth of analysis is very inconsistent, sometimes he really explains himself, other times the bio of a major player will just contain a meaningless anecdote, or will just go off on tangents.

Still, very few people have attempted what he has, and he clearly was among the first to have insights about the importance of certain stats like walks that nobody ever paid much attention to before.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Still, very few people have attempted what he has, and he clearly was among the first to have insights about the importance of certain stats like walks that nobody ever paid much attention to before.

WALKS......the significance of which I have always agreed with James.

Peter......I will never forget in 1980 when George Brett was flirting with .400 BA, as he responded to a sportswriter asking him why he fell short of the coveted .400 BA......
he simply said "not enough WALKS". George had less than 60 Walks that season.

By contrast, Ted Williams in 1941 (.406) worked a free pass to 1st base 147 times.

Back in the good ole days when I was managing our Bell Labs. Softball team, The Dingbats, when circumstances called for it, I would yell...."a WALK is as good as a HIT".


TED Z

[Peter_Spaeth]

At one point in the book James explains how he ran computer models to test whether a guy who walked every at bat would be better than the best hitter ever at his peak in terms of positive impact on a team. It turned out, he was.