new member introduction

[calvindog]

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the criticism here and the fact that some people who are critical here did all they could to shut me up back then.

Doesn't change the fact that bad behavior in this hobby should stop -- and more people should speak up about it instead of burying their heads in the sand for financial purposes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bad behavior should stop -- you won't get any argument from me there.

[calvindog]

Jesus H., about time.

[RobertGT]

I agree with Calvindog. There are far more egregious things to be worrying about in the hobby today than some decade-old SAH clips overhyping modern cards, and here we are 150 posts and counting devoted to it.

I think a lot of the vitriol spilled forth here has a bit to do with a bias on this board against modern cards (you know - the ones with the print runs in the billions). Were they worthless? For the most part, yes. But they were a lot less worthless 12 years ago then they are today. You can still sell a 87 Topps set for $10 today, and in some of the SAH deals you would get 15 factory sets for maybe $150 or so.

As for the story about the gentleman who bought $20K worth of cards worth maybe $2k, that is indeed a terrible situation. But he just as easily could have plowed $20K into creased-up vintage cards that some dealer sold to him at "high book" value. Those also would be worth about $2K. That never happens today right?

For every story about an unknowing guy who paid way too much for SAH stuff, there are 20 to tell about some crafty dealer who scammed a longtime collector's widow out of his lifetime collection for pennies on the dollar - probably days after the guy passed away. Or a story to tell of a dealer putting a "Hi book price" on a card in P/G condition and then telling you are getting a great deal when he gives you 25 percent off.

Indeed, there are far worse things to worry about. So let's get back to some real problems: rampant auction HOUSE BIDDING, eBay scams, rip-off artist dealers and the traveling museums, dealers who refuse to accept eBay as the true market value, Target and Walmart pack searchers, trimmed cards, rebacked cards, artificially aged reprints, reprints in TPG holders, cracked and frosted holders, fly-by-night grading companies, companies that put a "10" on a card in EXMT condition (see BCCG), resealed wax, Craigslist fraud, "Grandpa's attic" sellers, forged autographs, incompetent autograph authentication, shilled eBay auctions, stolen scans, stolen collections and the world's greatest baseball card graded PSA 8 even though it has been trimmed.

And no, I don't work for Ken Goldin nor do I know him personally, but I do love those old clips.

Good luck out there.
Rob

[DerekMichael]

I apologize for interrupting your conversation guys, but I just had to say, post #43 by "Wonka" is hilarious. I remember these guys from when I was a young kid, like it was yesterday. I would watch it back then and just crack up. Priceless.

Ok, I will shut up now and leave the actual argument to the intelligent folks on here.

[drc]

After watching said video, I have to say Don West is impressive. He was the only one there who didn't require a mic.

[chaddurbin]

so everyone is in agreement on at least one thing here--don west live via webcam at goldin headquarter on the closing day to pump up the ending lots?

[dherm360]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

so everyone is in agreement on at least one thing here--don west live via webcam at goldin headquarter on the closing day to pump up the ending lots?

doesnt Don West now work in the wrestling profession

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by dherm360

doesnt Don West now work in the wrestling profession

Last time I heard the blather, he was on a Sportstalk station in Nashville.

[boneheadandrube]

"Jeff has a bad attitude"...is about the only thing I've gotten out of his posts for the last month or so...Why would you go after a guy like Barry on a personal level for any reason? If you have a fire under your ass because of tools like Mastro and Allen why would you spray it at him? Did he shill you on something...no!

Go back to lawyer crap..sheesh!
GB

[glynparson]

for the record I hate shill bidding and I do not consign or bid in legendary either. (In the past I have had one legendary consignment, and i bid a couple times with Mastro but never won anything). I also hate the rumored notions of: card doctoring, counterfeiting, extreme overpricing, overhyping, deception, incompetence of grading companies, payoffs to grading companies, and any other possible bad practices that may or may not be occurring. Even though his past indiscretions may be seen by some as less severe, I still think Ken is not an individual I wish to do business with. PS. Did I miss something has Bill goodwin been indicted now for shill bidding? I'm not saying it is or isn't true, I'd just need more evidence then some freaky auction results. Do you have something to share, you can pm me if you'd like. I've also never consigned to Bill Goodwin though I have sold him a few cards outright and had advised a former friend to consign to him back around 2004.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by glynparson

It was around 1999-2000. I received a phone call from a woman in the Lebanon PA area. Her husband has just passed away from cancer and all he left her was this very valuable baseball card collection. When I get to the house, I brought my father with me to help go through it, she takes us to the basement to see the collection. When I get there I am horrified. It is all very beat up ugly off centered new cards all in 10 holders. The woman then explains to us how her husband found out he was dying of cancer, he didn't tell anyone at first. they had little money and No life insurance. They did have good credit, and he eventually told his wife he was dying of cancer but he had provided for her and their daughter. He got several credit cards and maxed them out buying that overhyped crap off of TV from Mr Goldin and Solomon Cramer. It was so hard explaining to this woman that her sick desperate husband, who was trying to give his family a future, had actually wasted tens of thousands of dollars they did not have. The woman was crying hysterically she was telling us how she would lose her home because she needed money from these cards. He had spent 20000+ and I would not have given her $2000 for it all and I would have paid her more than it was worth to try and help her. So no, he will not get a second chance from me, I don't care if he gets every white whale on my want list. I hope is has turned a new leaf but until past since are acknowledge a little more honestly and openly, and attempted to be rectified when possible, I will avoid Goldin auctions and be openly critical of his past, and I also wish they would not be an advertiser and please don't send me any email blasts about upcoming auctions as I don't care.

Edit: Jeff if you would see some of the garbage they were calling gem mint on modern stuff it seems a little beyond puffery in my opinion.

Classy guy cant wait to sign up and bid.

So you're saying what was purchased by this dying man acting off the info given to him by so called trusted experts on TV wasn't?

“Simply put this is the greatest baseball card trading product ever put out in the history of mankind!” Ken Goldin

If so I'm just shocked.

Jeff I think all these guys who screw us are equally jack wagons Mastro, Allen & Nash any of them who get caught taking advantage of us. I also agree we should be blasting the Allen’s, Mastro’s and Nash's or anyone who is implicated or caught doing ill will in whatever shape or form in the hobby. It’s garbage and doesn’t deserve a pass.

I agree it’s a bit short sided to beat on the nickel dime con while the crime king pin lives up the street and we all go over for dinner and compliment his furniture.

However this this jack wagon has announced he would like to move his way up the ladder to be a king pin and more respected. Since most all know his past tactics and sales angles he’s taking his beating…and part me wonders did he think it was going to be different.

Banner ads and announcements aside if it walks like a duck and…well you know the rest.

Bottom line you can come down with a cold or the flu, but you don’t all of sudden come down with a case of ethics and respectability.

[travrosty]

how close did that tiger woods card ever get to 100 grand?

[wonkaticket]

Ken,

To answer the above question at this time no. Addressing your PM.

I don’t need to have done business with you or personally know you. To feel that the way you conducted yourself during the Shop at Home Days was wrong in my personal opinion. It seems I’m not alone in my feelings.The Shop at Home sales tactics took advantage of folks with misinformation, hype and in many cases outright lies in my opinion. I think you know this too it’s no surprise. There is nothing that you’re going to tell me in private that would make see this as anything different I’m sorry.

Far from ripping you Ken yes I used the term “jack wagon” above figured a guy who was mixed up or part of the Shop at Home trainwreck wouldn’t have thin skin. I’m sorry and by sorry I mean. I have what I assume would be the same level of remorse you have for the folks who were sold bad stuff from Shop at Home. Since we are going to use that as my baseline of how I feel for using the term "jack wagon" above. Please tell me how upset I should be.

I post the above here in transparency as I will not hide behind PMs. I will not have off the record discussions with you or have anything twisted. I will also not play both sides of a fence, meaning have nice chats with you offline and blast you here. Anything I can say or have said about you can be made public here.

In terms of what I have posted about you Ken. At this point all I have done is simply point out your past actions which unfortunately for you are not very becoming. Again I don’t think I’m alone on this one.

Ken you’re right I have no personal dealings with you or any need for a personal vendetta so the bigger question why would I feel this way again? Why would I say ughh really this guy has an auction house? I think you know the answer...

This is not a witch hunt against you Ken. If Michael Milken popped up on the Net54 stock market discussion forum announcing his new trading company. I would also tell him I’m not looking to rush over some cash so he could manage my portfolio. I most likely would point out his past with links and videos as well.

Ken you’re not going to convince folks who view your past in a poor light that you’re a stand-up guy overnight. It’s going to take a lot more than throwing up a post. Tossing Leon a few bucks for a banner ads/email blasts, to think that your past actions are not worth keeping in the back of people’s minds when it comes to dealing with you as a business.

Bottom line there are tons of auctions houses looking to take my money. Sadly there are more of them with more stuff than I have money….I think that goes for most.

It’s not for you to convince me with calls, private emails, posts and it’s not on me or others to give you a leap of faith chance or pass either. The success of your auction house depends on you having quality merchandise and running a professional business. It’s on you to overcome my/our views of your past by running a solid respectable business and giving me a reason to want to do business with you.

In the end I may decide to do business with you and I may not. However at that point you’ve done your part. I just decided personally to pass regardless if you agree or not.

Cheers,

John

[npa589]

Hahahahaaha, I simply don't care enough. I have too much to do.

[sycks22]

I loved watching AANTV, they would only quote PSA pop reports on a card that's graded by GMA or some other terrible grading company and say the Ruth card goes for $3,000 all day when recent sales on ebay show it goes for $324. When I brought this to their attention they said ebay isn't a reliable source and I told them there are more companies than just PSA with pop reports and they didn't care. It was sad to see some people getting sucked into their lies.

[botn]

That must just be how it is done at AAN TV. So much for life changing for Ken now that he has 2 daughters.

Ken should have used any other name but his own for the auction house and been a background player.

[frankbmd]

All that glitters is not goldin

[npa589]

I simply don't care enough...happy collecting.

[wonkaticket]

Nate I'm sure he will PM you to clear this all up and answer your questions.

[npa589]

Maybe!

[Matthew H]

I guess the moral of the story here is go ahead and be criminal, just don't be unethical, if that makes any sense.

[botn]

Ken actually told me on the telephone the other day that he and the others involved really did not need the money. They just really wanted to do this. So I guess he does love the hobby. Sounds like he was born to have his own auction house!

Does make me wonder about the ethics of the other people who are involved with him. No way his partners cannot know about who this guy is, is there?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by botn

Ken actually told me on the telephone the other day that he and the others involved really did not need the money.

Then he should care even less that I posted his greatest hits, and should have no reason to PM me...

[Tsaiko]

If Michael Milken popped up on the Net54 stock market discussion forum announcing his new trading company.

Net 54 has a stock market discussion forum? I think that was just to make a point, but I think it would be a cool sub forum. I bet there's a fair amount of astute investors on net54 and sharing strategies might be cool. Stocks really aren't that different than cards, are they?

Sorry for the off topic. Carry on gentlemen.

[teetwoohsix]

I removed entire post as per email request by Mr.Goldin, on the basis that my post was mostly a quote of Nate's that has been edited/removed by the OP.

I'm done with this thread.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Tsaiko

Stocks really aren't that different than cards, are they?

I like your analogy. I see the parallels of Enron, Worldcom, Lehman Brothers and the Madoff fund compared to some of the high profile cards that are out there. I also see some parallels between Arthur Andersen and third party grading.

[botn]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Then he should care even less that I posted his greatest hits, and should have no reason to PM me...

Maybe he just wanted the opportunity to lie to you directly, as he did to me and to Leon.

You are such a killjoy.

[Gary Dunaier]

Ironically, in his capacity as a TNA broadcaster, Don West had his very own autographed card...

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by botn

Maybe he just wanted the opportunity to lie to you directly, as he did to me and to Leon.

You are such a killjoy.

Sorry Greg....my bad.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

... Mastro, Allen, etc., guys who stole from everyone HERE by using fraudulent means which rose to the level of violations of federal criminal law. ...

Allegedly

The sad irony of the original subject at issue is that "just" being a shameless huckster with a tawdry past hawking overpriced crap to nitwits is a glowing resume by comparison to the scumbags running some of the other AHs.

[sycks22]

11,000 views on here, amazing.

[botn]

Well John, I guess that is just the way it is done...

[RobertGT]

Can someone please post the "train wreck" image on this thread now?

[HOF Yankees]

delete

[drc]

-- edited for poor grammar --

[cobblove]

Did i read this right?

They said they offered a T206 Honus wagner to be pulled out of the product they sold.
And they also had a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle that was also posible to be pulled out of there product.

And only the 1952 Topps Mantle was given away and not the T206 Wagner..

They kept the wagner???

No where in this question did I say Ken did this. I said (they) the people who offered this deal...? I know it was offered there but saw it was never given out. I am not saying Ken was part of this deal in any way.

[7nohitter]

**Information has been brought to my attention which indicates that Goldin was not on SAH in 1990...apparently West was shilling with someone else in 1990...**

[cmcclelland]

Originally Posted by cobblove

Did i read this right?

They said they offered a T206 Honus wagner to be pulled out of the product they sold.
And they also had a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle that was also posible to be pulled out of there product.

And only the 1952 Topps Mantle was given away and not the T206 Wagner..

They kept the wagner???

I would really like to know the answer to this question. Mr. "Tough Guy" Goldin - since this is a purely factual question - maybe you would care to answer? Or maybe you will threaten to sick your lawyer on my again for even bringing it up?

[Jlighter]

Can someone post a video or a link to a video from SAH with Goldin because I have looked and still not found one?

[botn]

Originally Posted by cmcclelland

I would really like to know the answer to this question. Mr. "Tough Guy" Goldin - since this is a purely factual question - maybe you would care to answer? Or maybe you will threaten to sick your lawyer on my again for even bringing it up?

Yesterday morning Goldin posted the following: "To address one last question that was raised, on post 48 I outlined my departure from SB in 1997, as well as fact that I was not with the company when redemptions were due (including the Wagner card) so I cannot answer as to the outcome that John White CEO of SB did with the card."

Not sure how much weight we can actually put on Goldin's word, at this point, since getting divorced, remarried and having two daughters has not actually made him any different than he was prior to those events. I think the first question to answer is did SB ever have the Wagner. He certainly should have been at SB long enough to know that much.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Can someone post a video or a link to a video from SAH with Goldin because I have looked and still not found one?

#43

[scgaynor]

Did SB have the Wagner? Obviously they did, it is in the video which is posted in message #43. And David Kohler can confirm it, he sold it to SB in 1997. Also, there is a post in this long thread detailing that Ken left SB in the summer of 1997 (which is reported in public documents). The company went bankrupt in April 1998, and the Wagner card, presumably, along with all the other unclaimed redemptions were sold at a bankruptcy auction in 1999. All of this is in message #48 and in public records.

Also back in #173 you asked "Does make me wonder about the ethics of the other people who are involved with him. No way his partners cannot know about who this guy is, is there? "

There is a bit of irony in this question. I am not a financial partner, but the reason that I am involved in helping Ken with this is that his vision of what he wants Goldin Auctions to be is exactly the opposite of what you envision. Ken and I have had discussion about what an auction should be like. If his vision was an auction of puffery, cards graded by no name people and items of questionable authenticity, I would not have anything to do with it. Alot of people on this board (most?) have done business with me and know that I don't get involved with people who deal in fakes.

As I said before, it would seem to make sense that you let the catalog come out, and if you see problems, then speak up.

Scott

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by travrosty

how close did that tiger woods card ever get to 100 grand?

Considering someone paid 125k for a woods card cut out of sports illustrated, I'm sure some PSA 10s sold for some real money. I remember seeing that card on SAH a lot back then. They were selling it for current market value. Obviously the 100k card claims weren't accurate.

[botn]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

Did SB have the Wagner? Obviously they did, it is in the video which is posted in message #43.

Could not watch the video, Scott. Guess I do not have your constitution.

Originally Posted by scgaynor

Also back in #173 you asked "Does make me wonder about the ethics of the other people who are involved with him. No way his partners cannot know about who this guy is, is there? "

There is a bit of irony in this question.

Please elaborate on the irony, Scott.

Originally Posted by scgaynor

As I said before, it would seem to make sense that you let the catalog come out, and if you see problems, then speak up.

I do not follow your logic at all. I saw Mastro's and Legendary's catalogs for years. Apparently there was no mention in the catalog that they were going to be indicted. How does a catalog tell me about the integrity of the auction house? Also you seem a bit defensive. Thanks for the info on the Wagner, however.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

#43

Thanks, skipped over a few of the threads pages.

[scgaynor]

The irony is stated in the paragraph. The part that you edited out. You question my ethics, and the ethics of Ken Goldin, but the auction is going to be run in the most ethical of manners (the opposite of what you envision). Irony as defined by Webster "incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result."

"I do not follow your logic at all. I saw Mastro's and Legendary's catalogs for years. Apparently there was no mention in the catalog that they were going to be indicted. How does a catalog tell me about the integrity of the auction house?"

If your concern, as I understand it, is with puffery and authenticity, the catalog will tell you all that you need to know.

Scott

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

Alot of people on this board (most?) have done business with me and know that I don't get involved with people who deal in fakes.

...

Scott

I used Scott to sell quite a bit of stuff around eight years ago. Among the items were two postcards that had been sold to me by a very reputable board member. I thought they might be fakes, but I said nothing to Scott before sending them in with the other stuff. Scott was reputable, so I figured if they were okay with him, then I might be mistaken.

He sent them back to me (only the two postcards) and said that he did not feel comfortable with them - couldn't say exactly what was wrong with them, but they didn't look 'good' to him.

I completely respect Scott and his auctions.

[botn]

Originally Posted by scgaynor

If your concern, as I understand it, is with puffery and authenticity, the catalog will tell you all that you need to know.
Scott

Thought my posts were clear. My concern is Goldin's apparent lack of integrity. My initial posts were about his history with SAH and the bad SB stuff that was floating in the hobby and the countless people who got burned. He addressed both of those issues. With regard to SAH he described that as something which happened 10 years ago, and things were done that way but his life had now changed due to being divorced, remarried and having two kids. Despite not being convinced of his true sincerity, I let it go until Nate was kind enough to point out that Ken never really stopped with those selling tactics, after all. As he was seen as recently as April doing the same crap on AAN tv.

I have never heard a single person say anything negative about you so my posts are not directed at you. I just wonder why anyone would want to be affiliated with a guy who seems to have questionable ethics and no problem with telling lies.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I used Scott to sell quite a bit of stuff around eight years ago. Among the items were two postcards that had been sold to me by a very reputable board member. I thought they might be fakes, but I said nothing to Scott before sending them in with the other stuff. Scott was reputable, so I figured if they were okay with him, then I might be mistaken.

He sent them back to me (only the two postcards) and said that he did not feel comfortable with them - couldn't say exactly what was wrong with them, but they didn't look 'good' to him.

I completely respect Scott and his auctions.

Did you ever find out if the postcards were legit? What were they, if you don't mind me asking?