Need Educated on Sam Jones please

[mschwade]

Can one of out experts breakdown the Sam Jones from Red Sox in 1910's and Yankees of the 1920's vs Sam Jones that threw a no-hitter in the 1950's... I've seen them both referred to as Sad Sam, Toothpick.. I've seen two signatures said to be the earlier Sam Jones, but they both had drastically different S's. Can someone set the record straight and give examples of their autographs. Thank you in advance!

Matt

[mr2686]

Samuel Jones, aka Sad Sam Jones, aka Toothpick Jones pitched played from 1951 to 1964. Samuel Pond Jones aka Sad Sam Jones was the one that played from 1914 to 1935. You probably saw two examples of one or the other and whomever was selling them was confused.

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Samuel Jones, aka Sad Sam Jones, aka Toothpick Jones pitched played from 1951 to 1964. Samuel Pond Jones aka Sad Sam Jones was the one that played from 1914 to 1935. You probably saw two examples of one or the other and whomever was selling them was confused.

Which Sam Jones is this? I assumed it was Toothpick, 1951-1964, but was advertised as the 1914-1935 one. And looks similar to another one that is advertised as 1914-1935.

[mr2686]

Matt, I'm pretty sure that the one you just posted is Toothpick Jones. Can anyone else confirm?

[jgmp123]

This is Sad Sam Jones...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1914-Yankees...a#ht_500wt_689

I would agree that yours is Toothpick Jones.

[prewarsports]

Samuel P. Jones from a check cut. Looks like you have the 1950's player. I also have a nice 3X5 of this one somewhere as well.

Rhys

[Scott Garner]

Matt,

I concur that the signature that you scanned is absolutely not Samuel Pond "Sad Sam" Jones as Mike and Rhys pointed out.

I'm not sure that your scan is "Toothpick" Sam Jones either. In particular, the "S" in Sam is not like any other exemplars that I've ever seen of "Toothpick" Sam. In addition, the "J" in Jones is inconsistent with his exemplars as well.

Take a look at two of my Toothpick Sam signatures in my personal collection.
The album page was signed in the 1950's, but the signed 3 x 5 is circa late 1950's- 1960. I've also included a photo of a no-hitter game ball from his no-hitter game in 1955. Please also see a photo of "Toothpick" in 1955 while playing on the Cubbies.

To create extra confusion, please check out the attached signed 3 x 5 of the ex- NBA player Sam Jones of the Celtics. Note the formation of the "J" in Jones. The "J" in the NBA player's sig is very similar to your autograph, but it doesn't match the "S" in Sam.

The bottom line here is that "Toothpick Sam's" signature is fairly scarce due to his early death date and the fact that he was speculated by many to be somewhat illiterate. Examples of his autograph are fairly tough for a post WWII regular player. For completeness sake, "Toothpick Sam" was a Negro Leagues player prior to playing in the major leagues and he threw a no-hitter for the NL Chicago Cubs on May 12, 1955.

I would ask Jim Stinson his opinion of your signed 3 x 5. Perhaps he is familiar with this different version of his signature, if it is in fact is. IMHO this is not, in fact, "Toothpick" Sam's sig., FWIW...

I hope this helps!

[mschwade]

I got an email from one of our experts who said the one I posted was an "early" Sam Jones, the old Celtics player. Before that email, I hadn't even thought of that possibility. Thanks all for the education, hopefully everyone learns something from it.

[mr2686]

I thought about Sam Jones of the Celtics, but I didn't see anything like the one you posted. Here's another rub...theres one on ebay right now that is listed as 1918 Sad Sam Jones that is identical to yours. It is cert'd by JSA but the problem is when you look up the cert number it just says Sam Jones...like that really helps.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sad-Sam-Jone...item4399e9295f

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by mschwade

I got an email from one of our experts who said the one I posted was an "early" Sam Jones, the old Celtics player. Before that email, I hadn't even thought of that possibility. Thanks all for the education, hopefully everyone learns something from it.

Hi Matt,
I'm glad that you received the help that you were looking for. I guess that solves that. Mystery solved!

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by mr2686

I thought about Sam Jones of the Celtics, but I didn't see anything like the one you posted. Here's another rub...theres one on ebay right now that is listed as 1918 Sad Sam Jones that is identical to yours. It is cert'd by JSA but the problem is when you look up the cert number it just says Sam Jones...like that really helps.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sad-Sam-Jone...item4399e9295f

Mike,
Definately NOT Samuel P. Jones...

[mr2686]

I agree Scott, I just haven't seen anything to prove it's Sam Jones the basketball player.