T213 (1910 COUPON) Major Leaguers & imagine if Joe Jackson was in this set

[tedzan]

Joe Jackson played 118 games for Savannah of the South Atlantic League in 1909 and led the League in batting....BA = .358
The following year, Shoeless Joe batted .354 for the New Orleans Pelicans, and helped them win the 1910 Southern Association pennant.

Imagine if American Lithographic (ALC) had included Shoeless Joe in the Southern League group of these rare COUPON cards. Would that
be a "big $$$$$" card....or what ?

My fantasy here is not such a wildly bizarre thought....after all guys, ALC printed Shoeless Joe in their OLD MILL (T210-Southern Assoc.)
series of cards.


TED Z

[g_vezina_c55]

Do you know why Jackson was not included in this set or in the t206 regular set

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

Do you know why Jackson was not included in this set or in the t206 regular set

You'll likely find this interesting. An example of solid research:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=redux

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

You'll likely find this interesting. An example of solid research:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=redux

Thx I will read it

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

Do you know why Jackson was not included in this set or in the t206 regular set

Nelson

During the 1908 season, Connie Mack closely followed Joe Jackson's performance at Greenville (Carolina Association); and, was impressed with Joe's all-
around game. Connie Mack purchased Joe from Greenville (Carolina Association) for $1,000 on July 30, 1908. Connie Mack told Joe to report to the Phila-
delphia A's at the end of the 1908 Carolina Association season. Joe played in 23 games for the A's in Aug-Sept 1908. Joe Jax's Major League debut was
on August 25, 1908. **
Joe Jax started the 1909 season with the A's, but was sent down to Savannah in May after only 18 games with the A's. **


The American Caramel set (E90-1) was printed & issued late in 1908. Joe Jax was included in an early series of the E90-1 set (a dozen A's players were
included in this series).

So, the big question that mystifies us to this day....why wasn't Joe Jax in the T206 (1909-1911), or T205 (1911), or T201 (1911), or T202 (1912), etc. ?

Especially the T202....since he batted .408 in a 147 games with Cleveland in 1911. That kind of performance certainly warrants his picture on a BB card.

Well.....there are some who say that Joe is pictured on the centerfold of this T202. Although the backdrop is certainly Cleveland's ballpark, I'm somewhat
skeptical that this is Joe sliding in. Nevertheless, I'm saving this card for when Joe becomes a HOFer and then I will cash in






** Reference....Connie Mack and the Early Years of Baseball (by Norman Macht)


TED Z

[usernamealreadytaken]

Ted. I am confused. Of all of the known 1910 Coupons, all depict T206 images (in fact you have detailed how they follow the T206 series scheme). So I am not sure how there could ever be a "new" 1910 Coupon image that would not also have been on a T206. Isn't the more appropriate thread title "T206 . . . imagine if Joe Jackson was in this set."?

In fact, if there was a 1910 Coupon Joe Jackson (but not a Joe Jackson T206) there could be no argument that T213-1 are in fact another T206 back (as I believe they are).

[tedzan]

Hi Chris

Thanx for an excellent question. Let's see if I can "un-confuse" you with the following......

Initially for the T206 issue, American Litho. (ALC) printed 34 (150 Series) Southern Leaguers which included 16 - Southern Association (SA) subjects.
Subsequently, ALC then printed the entire 48 - Southern Leaguers (350 series), and added 4 more SA guys.....Hart (Little Rock), Hart (Montgomery),
Lentz & Rockenfeld).

So, in the printing of the T206's, with respect to the SA guys, there were 2 phases. Now consider a 3rd addition.....the printing of the 1910 COUPON
cards were circa Spring (or Summer) of 1910. Concurrently, ALC was printing the T210 (OLD MILL) cards. The printing plate for the T210 image of Joe
Jackson (New Orleans) was most likely designed and ready then.

So, with Shoeless Joe having a great season (BA = .358) in 1909 playing for Savannah and tearing-up the SA with his hitting in 1910 (at a .354 clip)....
ALC could have added a Shoeless Joe card to this COUPON set and forever rendered this set a very unique issue in the hobby.

I know, this is wishful thinking....but, there are times my imagination goes wild.


Best regards,

TED Z

[usernamealreadytaken]

Thanks Ted.

I think you and I agree with the following:

1.) T206s were produced in a remarkably complex and precise manner (as it relates to subjects/series/issues/front-back combinations), and

2.) T213-1s should be properly classified as a T206 back.


Any idea that there could have existed a 1910 Coupon subject who is not also a T206 subject upsets both of the notions above - it would not conform to the parallels between the T206 and T213-1, and therefore, would put the nail in the coffin as to the argument that 213-1s are actually T206s. As it stands now, the fact that there is not a 1910 Coupon Jackson (despite his popularity) supports the argument.


That said, I understand where you are coming from - IF Joe Jackson happened to appear on a T206 and/or T213-1, it would be an incredibly desirable card (analogous to the idea of a 1914/15 Cracker Jack Babe Ruth).

[g_vezina_c55]

Sorry for my noob question but why the coupon back is not considered as a t206 back and t206 card

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by usernamealreadytaken

Ted. I am confused. Of all of the known 1910 Coupons, all depict T206 images (in fact you have detailed how they follow the T206 series scheme). So I am not sure how there could ever be a "new" 1910 Coupon image that would not also have been on a T206. Isn't the more appropriate thread title "T206 . . . imagine if Joe Jackson was in this set."?

In fact, if there was a 1910 Coupon Joe Jackson (but not a Joe Jackson T206) there could be no argument that T213-1 are in fact another T206 back (as I believe they are).

Chris

Well stated, and yes Joe Jax would first have been printed in the T206 regular press runs with whatever backs (respective of the series he was printed in).

The 1910 "COUPON" printing was incidental to the T206 press runs (especially the PIEDMONT, SOVEREIGN, and SWEET CAPORAL press runs).


TED Z