The 10 commandments of card collecting

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by david_l

Thy shall remember the great players of color who were not fortunate to have cards. Thy shall not deceive oneself into believing that Mantle was actually a better player than Mays.

But it has been conclusively, objectively and mathematically proven that Mantle was indeed better than Mays offensively (though certainly not in the field--Mantle was good as a centerfielder, but Mays has a legitimate claim to being the best of all time with the glove). Better check out their respective runs created to league average over their careers (Mantle, by recollection, is right around 215%, Mays about 185%; OPS+ [171 for Mantle to 156 for Mays], and OBP [.421 for Mantle; .384 for Mays). Mantle also had a higher runs scored per game average. Respectfully suggest you read some recent biographies, such as Jane Leavy's "The Last Boy," and the fairly recent one about both Mickey and Willie, which include a relatively thorough SABR analysis. The Mantle advantage offensively is largely due to far more walks, less GIDP's, and better homerun frequency. Though their historically traditional stats appear to be somewhat similar, Mantle made far fewer outs to get approximately the same production. Career wise, Mays might be said to have the edge due to sheer greater longevity, but certainly not when they were both playing. There is no evidence to support any case that Mays was better offensively than Mantle while both were playing other than anecdotal. The latter is a little like Roger Kahn, author of "The Boys of Summer," stating that Stan Musial was the greatest hitter he had ever seen. Well, in a word, no. Kahn saw Mantle and Williams, as well as Musial. Musial created 193% of league average runs created; Mantle, as stated, was around 215%, and Ted Williams tops them all (yes, including the Babe, at 240%) at 250% OVER HIS ENTIRE CAREER (a figure which was even better than Gehrig's best single season in 1927). Musial was certainly great, but claiming he was better is nothing more than saying he liked Musial better than the other two, since it is an argument that cannot be factually supported.

Case closed,

Larry