Any Game of Thrones Fans?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by packs

Please tell me why we wasted so much time in Bravos with Arya? She did nothing there except train, which she was already doing with Syrio off screen. Yet we spent episode after episode watching her do it just so she could kill one person and leave.

Riverrun: talk about a waste of time. Brienne goes all the way there just to have Blackfish do the exact thing he would have done had she not even shown up. What was the purpose of those scenes? Could they not have found a way to reunite Brienne and Jamie in a way that advanced the plot?

Um, Arya was a young girl, and had trained with her "dancing master", Syrio Forel, for only a few months, if that, before Ned was murdered, and Arya was forced to flee the Capital. The instruction she received from the nameless girl did much more to advance her fighting abilities. Before this last fight, the only person Arya had ever killed was a fat kid that tried to steal Needle from her. Arya could have never killed this nameless girl based on Syrio's instruction, alone.

Why does every single element in a story have to "advance the narrative"? Can't a character just be shown learning a skill, or a craft? However, here, Arya didn't simply "learn to fight, kill a girl, and leave", as you stated. She'd started down a path to completely forego her identity as Arya Stark to be one of the Faceless. When presented with a task she felt was wrong, she demurred, and didn't poison the woman actress. That had a tremendous impact on her character arc, because had she not refused, and poisoned the woman, who would have helped her when she ultimately refused to commit another kill for the Many-Faced God, and got stabbed? She didn't know anybody else in Bravos except Jaqen, and he was the one who sent the training girl to kill Arya. Arya's mercy for that woman ended up saving her own life. Not sure how you can't see that. And, when Arya confronted Jaqen at sword point, she decided that the path she'd started down was not for her, that she was indeed a Stark, and she was going home. This is an incredible moment of self-affirmation for a young woman. She's stopped running. She's no longer a child, but a woman in control of her own destiny. Both Arya and Sansa have grown by leaps and bounds in this season. The Stark family, which was on the verge of utter collapse at the end of season five, is not only alive and well; they're on the verge of reclaiming their home, Winterfell. Should Jon and Sansa retake Winterfell, the entire family, which has been separated since season one, could reunite. Retaking Winterfell could save Rickon. Arya is returning home. Jon is alive. Sansa has escaped Ramsay Bolton. And, Uncle Benjen is with Bran; he will likely take him south to the wall, and they will be told that Jon and Sansa have returned to Winterfell. The tide could be turning in a very big way. The pieces on the chess board are moving, and the Lannisters, who have seen victory after victory, are on their heels. Cersei has just found out that she is in real trouble, because she has been counting on a trial by combat to save her from the High Sparrow. Now King Tommen, her own son, has ruled that trial by combat is antiquated, and barbaric.

And the Blackfish does the exact same thing he would have done had Brienne not showed up? And the plot wasn't advanced? Really? You, apparently, weren't paying very close attention, because Brienne's appearance at the siege has a dramatic impact on what happens next.

Before Brienne and Podrick show up, Jamie Lannister assumes control of the army, and has a formal parlay with the Blackfish. They size each other up, and the Blackfish balks at the Kingslayer's appeals to forego a battle which would cost thousands their lives. It is quite evident that there is going to be a protracted, bloody siege battle. Thousands of men loyal to the Lannisters are going to die in the retake of the Frey's keep. And, hundreds of men defending the keep will also die. Only when Brienne has shown up does Jamie Lanister try a different approach. After they speak, and Jamie tells Brienne that Oathkeeper is hers forever, only then does the possible result of this battle become clear: as she is leaving, Brienne tells Jamie that should her negotiations with Blackfish fail, she would be honor-bound to fight alongside the Blackfish, as the forces within the keep are aligned with the Starks. This means that Jamie and Brienne could meet in a fight to the death. Jamie clearly does not want this. Though he will not openly admit it, he cares very deeply for Brienne. And she cares for him as well. This is apparent to anybody paying attention when she and Podrick are slowly meandering down the river leaving the keep. Both wave farewell to each other. Jamie would be fully within his authority, and abilities, to have her captured. She is, after all, loyal to the Starks, the Lannister family's sworn enemies. But he lets her go.

Back to Jamie's decision. He has Edmure Tully brought in; they exchange some barbs, Tully questioning Jamie's goodness, and openly mocking "the word" of the Kingslayer when Jamie promises that, should the Blackfish and the soldiers inside the keep surrender by midnight, they will be allowed to leave unharmed. Jamie then tells Edmure that he will have his new bride, and their newborn child brought to the front; Lannister promises to have the child catapulted into the keep if Edmure does not negotiate a surrender. Jamie promises to kill every single Tully in order to complete his task, and return to Cersei. That is the justification he uses, verbally. But he clearly does not want to endanger Brienne's life. The tactic works. Edmure Tully, who is the Lord Commander of the keep, tells the captain of the guard to instruct his men to lay down their arms, and exit the keep; which, they do. The Blackfish fights to the death. He is the only casualty.

So what happened because of Brienne's appearance? Oh, not much changed. Thousands of men didn't die. Jamie Lannister re-took the castle for Walder Frey in one day, instead of taking weeks, if not months, to do so. And, more importantly, hundreds of soldiers, loyal to the Starks, were allowed to leave the keep unharmed (and where could they possibly go now, after the Blackfish received written correspondence from Sansa that they are about to retake Winterfell??) And, both Jamie and Brienne leave the conflict unharmed.

But yeah, Brienne's appearance was not at all consequential.

Respectfully, perhaps you should pay a little more attention to what's really going on.

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

the showrunners are definitely lost...are all the people in DORNE dead? just so many throwaway storylines. with GRRM you would never get to a destination, but at least the journey getting there is never-ending

edit: i am waiting for a targaryen prequel show, that would be pretty awesome. feels like with GoT success the franchise is not going to end in a couple years with ASOIAF

"with GRRM you would never get to a destination, but at least the journey getting there is never-ending "

I don't even know what that means, really. But have you learned nothing from watching this show? Are story arcs ever really "done" with? They're certainly not just "thrown away", as you opined.

We thought Benjen Stark was dead in season one. Lo and behold, he's alive and well, and helping Bran Stark escape the White Walkers in season six.

How about you just wait and see what happens? If, after the series has concluded, there are story arcs that you feel were left to no conclusion, please feel free to share those thoughts. But the show is ongoing, and there are at least 12 hour long episodes remaining. I think the show runners have earned a little leeway after six great seasons. If anything, I think we'd all agree that George RR Martin, and the show runners/writers are masters of misdirection. Just when you think you've got something figured out, or you think somebody is safe, all hell breaks loose.