T206 Advice?? Update

[rp12367]

I won this card off e-bay early this morning. I needed the Old Mill Back for my Chase collection. Card is graded a SGC 10. Card looks like it is a higher grade other than the paper remaining on the back from old scrap book. It looks like to me, that seeing as you can see though the paper it might soak off easily... Is this something that (A) looks like it would come off (B) worth taking the time to do. I would probably just leave the card raw in my collection afterwards. I have read a few soaking threads, even though I have never done it before with a card it doesn't sound any harder then soaking stamps when I was a kid. Any thoughts would be appreciated...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:L:OU:US:1123

[cfc1909]

leave the card alone. You can still read the ad-If there was extra paper covering the ad, I would say soak it off but no need. I have the same card in my collection.

Chase.jpg

Chaseb.jpg

[ethicsprof]

i'm with Jim.
l'd leave the card alone.
Congrats on your Chase collection!

all the best,
barry

[Bridwell]

The card looks like it's been soaked once already, otherwise how did they get most of the paper off? Doing a 2nd soaking is taking a big risk, IMO. To me, it has the appearance of a card with a lot of glue residue on there, but not much paper. The residue is harder to get off and you are likely to start losing some of the top layer of the backing. It's still readable as is. Corner wear and any creasing make it riskier to get it wet again, also. It would be a shame to damage the front while trying to slightly improve the back.

[bh3443]

Hi,
Very nice Chase card!
Did anyone see the autographed T206 of Rube Marquard in Hunts auctions? I got the catalog today.

[jeffmohler]

I guess I am in the minority, but I would bust it out and give it a soaking! Maybe it is just me, but I don't like paper stuck on the back of my cards. I don't much like paper loss either!

[iggyman]

As mentioned, it looks like glue residue which is a bit more risky to remove. You will need alot of patience (and let me emphasis the "ALOT" part) to get the glue off. Water alone will probably not get the job done, you will need some sort of a Q-tip to gently get the glue off. Doable......yes. Worth it, I'm not sure. You will probably end-up with a few tiny tiny specks of paper loss, even if done correctly. Thus, if your goal is a nicer eye appeal T206 Chase that will still grade a "one" irregardless.......then okay, go for it. You will not harm the card by soaking it a second or third time (the soaking part won't hurt the card, but it's the part where you try to remove the glue residue/paper that could damage the back). If your goal is a higher grade, best leave it in the holder and just make sure to look at the card facing-up.

Lovely Day...

[rp12367]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I'm still sitting on the fence. I think I might just leave it be for now. I will probably make my final decision once I have card in hand (hopefully by the weekend), and I can see up close what it looks like. I will let you know the final outcome either way. Thanks to all... Ralph

[DICKTOWLE]

For 16 years we have been removing paper on back of cards without soaking, also we remove glue, i enjoy reading what other people do, however if you want our company to do this we will at no charge, 'gone with the stain" . For the record many customers from the great chat 54 have used my service, we can help. Thank you again dick towle

[rp12367]

As I stated in my last post I was sitting on the fence as to what to do with my recent purchase. I was contacted by Dick Towle a board member who reassured me that he could help with my card. No soaking needed. I called Dick on the phone and after talking to him I felt comfortable sending the card to him so he could work his magic. Well after a few days I got the card back from Dick and I was very happy with the result I can't thank him enough for the help with the card. I would recommend his services to anyone out there looking for the same results.... Thanks again Ralph

Before





After





Besides tiny flea sized paper loss near the B, which appears to have been there already if you look close at the before pic, card is now super nice and alot better than the before grade of a SGC 10 Poor...

[DJR]

.

[Matthew H]

If you want to avoid cards removed from a scrap book, just avoid high grade cards.

[DJR]

.

[Jaybird]

I just wanted to point out that the card, though appearing a bit better (in some people's eyes), will still only grade a 2. The paper loss on the back will keep it from grading any higher.

So in essence, all of this work was done to bring it from a 1 to a 2. Seems like a lot of unnecessary fiddling.

[Matthew H]

I think the technical grade is subjective. The card looks 100% better. The card was already altered when someone spread glue on the back. I personally don't have a problem owning a card with this type of "alteration".

I think it was a very nice gesture, doing this for free. Glue removed, wrinkles and round corners intact.

[tolstoi]

Thats a great card for a great price, I would just leave it as is, you don't want to risk damaging the card.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by DJR

I prefer high grade (and low grade) cards that remain original and intact, free of chemicals / solvents, cards that once had indents, tape, ink, etc. Call me old fashioned, I guess. I also do not appreciate the pressers / trimmers, emery boards, and other nefarious activities.

Unfortunately (for some), Dick Towle's techniques do not leave any trace of their usage. PSA and SGC will freely grade these cards. I had a beautiful SGC 80 once that was Towle-job, so to speak. The card had previously been in a scrap book.

If you collect high grade pre-war cards, you should fully expect that many of them used to be in scrap books and were soaked off by water or via other non-traceable means. Why do you think the corners are so sharp and the borders so white?!

I think this is one of the most interesting topics in card collecting -- rife with controversy and opinions all over the place.

[Doug]

I wouldn't have an issue buying a soaked card. I'd say there's more of an alteration to the card by having paper or glue residue on it. I think it would be like saying an otherwise all original classic car is restored because you took it to the car wash and washed off all of the "original" dirt that it picked up over the years. Then again, that's just my opinion as wrong as some may find it to be.

[FUBAR]

Personally, i like the way the new card looks, It has much better eye appeal and for this card, the back was important to the buyer. For free, that is a top notch thing to do!

I don't feel this is an altered card at all. Nothing has been added, and only something removed that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Nice work Dick!

[teetwoohsix]

I must admit it is an amazing job Mr.Towle did on that card, but I kinda feel the way DJR does about it. It also does make me wonder how many cards floating around out there have had this done to them?

I like to think the T206's I have collected so far haven't had something like this done to them, but the fact that PSA and SGC can't detect this kind of "work" makes me wonder. That sucks.

Clayton

[vintagetoppsguy]

It’s just my personal opinion, but I don’t consider what was done to the card as an “alteration” especially since whatever was done is untraceable. To me, it’s no different than taking nylon hose and removing wax residue from the front of a card.

Originally Posted by Jaybird

I just wanted to point out that the card, though appearing a bit better (in some people's eyes), will still only grade a 2. The paper loss on the back will keep it from grading any higher.

So in essence, all of this work was done to bring it from a 1 to a 2. Seems like a lot of unnecessary fiddling.

I don’t think the OP has the intentions of re-grading it. He just wanted a nice looking card and states in his original post, “I would probably just leave the card raw in my collection afterwards.”

[rp12367]

I didn't think the before and after pics, would cause quite a stir. I know that the cleaning of the glue that Dick did, didn't really raise the grade as someone stated. The card went from a 1 to a 2 because of paper loss, bends, corners etc... I have no intention on submitting the card to PSA/SGC. I am a Hal Chase collector and the card will stay raw in my collection. I still have the original SGC label in a top loader with the card. If I ever do decide to sell the card I will disclose that the card was a 1 and was cleaned. I didn't send the card to Dick to deceive anyone now or in the future. I have several T-206 high grade cards and as someone pointed out alot of high grade pre-war stuff at one point or another may have been soaked/chemical cleaned at some point in time. Due to being glued in a scrap book. Which is how so many of the cards maintained those razor sharp corners for 100+ years. I don't see any problem with what Dick did, the card doesn't glow in the dark, has no chemical smell and isn't going to spontaneous combust while in my shoe box with my other cards... Thanks again to Dick....