The Truly "Tough" cards

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by tedzan

JOE

I do not have this card, all I have is this "poor man's" version of the T206 Doyle error card.......

PRINTER's MARK (remnant of "N" in Nat'l)
.................................................. ............................................. /\



The scan on the right is a xerox copy of a REAL Joe Doyle error card. It is the only scan I have
for an A-B comparison.

You are one of only 7 collectors that are fortunate enough to have this extremely rare Tobacco
card. It behooves you to show us a nice large scan of it.


Regards,

TED Z

*

Ted, we're not talking about the dot.

We're talking about what you call the REAL Doyle error.
Like the first one ... you don't need a black light, or a halogen.

Bad scan, bad xeroz ... It's a bad representation to stake your credibility on.

Let's have a little brief background history.

In 1980, Larry Fritsch spotted the Joe Doyle error, and kept it to himself until he picked up his second from the 1987 Huggins auction ..... it was then, that all the tobacco collectors learned about it in 1987.

Very shortly after that, Lew Lipset picked one up at the Atlantic City national ... the third one. ..... He puts it up for auction, and I was lucky.

In 1990, I heard about another one, I said to myself, let's go after it, and I'll use it to trade for a much more available Wagner ..... that would give me a complete T206 set.
The above turned out to be a Dr Koos special.
Got my money back ..... and boy, did I get an education.

I paid for an education on a good one, and paid for an education on a bad one.
I've been studying the Doyle since 1987.
I studied the good and the bad, and didn't come out empty handed.

Now, if I recall correctly, it's only been a little over two years since the Slow Joe Doyle error debate between Ted, and Barry Sloate on net 54.

Barry was presenting the facts about the Doyle error, and Ted was not accepting any of the facts.
The more Barry tried, the more you could almost see Barry's face turning blue with frustration.

I made the mistake of jumping in, and presenting Barry with the "Congressional Medal of Frustration."

It was meant to be a joke, and the joke was in Barry's favor.
He knew that the Doyle was an error card, and Ted didn't.

The joke was misread, and missunderstood ..... I failed as a comedian.

Ted, during the 1980's, I flew all over the country to various shows.
Saw a lot of cards, and met a lot of interesting dealers.
I use to catch you at a few shows in the east coast.
You're a good guy, and I always enjoyed meeting up with you.
You know your Bowmans, both baseball and football.

Tobacco collectors were onto the Doyle error in 1987, you just came on the scene two years ago.

Theories are fun and great, but facts are facts.
Especially when you don't need a black light, or halogen.

Regards.
Joe

[tedzan]

This statement of yours is hilarious....you have to be kidding ?
"Tobacco collectors were onto the Doyle error in 1987, you just came on the scene two years ago."


Can you say Bill Huggins (circa mid-1980's) ? ?

We were at the Willow Grove Show in Pennsy when Bill talked about the "strange" Doyle he had discovered.
Yes, the Joe Doyle (Nat'l) error card.

At the time I was about 1/2 way thru collecting my 1st T206 set and was very interested in this card; however,
at the same time quite skeptical about it being authentic.....since, for many years it was unknown.

In 2005 when I came up with my PIEDMONT first THEORY....yes Joe, one of my numerous THEORIES regarding BB
cards. I was convinced that the Doyle error card was a legit printing by American Lithographic in 1910.

Furthermore, this tied in with another THEORY of mine regarding the "elite 8" in the T206 set with their extremely
scarce PIEDMONT 350 backs (of which the Doyle error card is singularly found with).
Joe, this "elite 8" theory has been proven true.

Finally Joe....you pride yourself as being a T206 expert....how many T206 sets do you have ?


I think by now, you know that since the early 1980's, I have put together FIVE sets......

1....521 cards (mixed backs).....no Doyle, Plank, Wagner

2....520 cards (mixed backs).....no Doyle, Magie, Plank, Wagner

3....519 cards (all PIEDMONT).....no Doyle, Plank, Wagner

4....407 cards complete (all SOVEREIGN)

5....467 cards (all SWEET CAPORAL, factory 30).....no Plank, Wagner

and, the following sub-sets....

SWEET CAPORAL 150, factory 649 (overprint).....35 cards complete

AMERICAN BEAUTY 460.....68 of the 73 card sub-set

SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 42 (overprint).....55% complete



TED Z

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by tedzan

This statement of yours is hilarious....you have to be kidding ?
"Tobacco collectors were onto the Doyle error in 1987, you just came on the scene two years ago."

*

Ted, we're talking about your Doyle error debate with Barry, two or so years ago.
Would you like me to post the archive for you???
--------------------------

Can you say Bill Huggins (circa mid-1980's) ? ?

*

I did Ted, I said, "1987 Huggins auction."
If you're weak on the year, check with Huggins.
---------------------


We were at the Willow Grove Show in Pennsy when Bill talked about the "strange" Doyle he had discovered.
Yes, the Joe Doyle (Nat'l) error card.

At the time I was about 1/2 way thru collecting my 1st T206 set and was very interested in this card; however,
at the same time quite skeptical about it being authentic.....since, for many years it was unknown.

In 2005 when I came up with my PIEDMONT first THEORY....yes Joe, one of my numerous THEORIES regarding BB
cards. I was convinced that the Doyle error card was a legit printing by American Lithographic in 1910.

Furthermore, this tied in with another THEORY of mine regarding the "elite 8" in the T206 set with their extremely
scarce PIEDMONT 350 backs (of which the Doyle error card is singularly found with).
Joe, this "elite 8" theory has been proven true.
--------------------------------

Finally Joe....you pride yourself as being a T206 expert....how many T206 sets do you have ?

*

I never said that I was a T206 expert ... THOSE ARE YOUR WORDS.
I'm still learning something new about the set.
However, I will say that I know a little bit more about the Joe Doyle error card.

I have two T206 sets, and I go by the known frontal check list.
My better set is missing 1 card from that list. ... Ask Jim Rivera.
My beater T206 set is missing 8 cards from that list.
-----------------------------


I think by now, you know that since the early 1980's, I have put together FIVE sets......

1....521 cards (mixed backs)

2....520 cards (mixed backs)

3....519 cards (all PIEDMONT)

4....407 cards (all SOVEREIGN)

5....467 cards (all SWEET CAPORAL, factory 30)

and, the following sub-sets....

SWEET CAPORAL 150, factory 649 (overprint).....35 cards complete

AMERICAN BEAUTY 460.....66 of the 73 card sub-set

SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 42 (overprint).....55% complete


TED Z

*

Ted, you have to learn how to handle an opposing viewpoint better.

Joe

[tedzan]

Joe....you are speechless ! !

Did I overwhelm you with my specialized, multi-T206 set collection ?


In any event, here you go Joe........


REAL



(re..REA auctions)



FAKE






TED Z

[Brian Van Horn]

Here's one more card for the discussion:

[Potomac Yank]

QUOTE=tedzan;761743]Joe....you are speechless ! !

Did I overwhelm you with my specialized, multi-T206 set collection ?


In any event, here you go Joe........


REAL



(re..REA auctions)



FAKE






TED Z[/QUOTE]

*

"Joe....you are speechless ! !" ..... Speechless about what Ted?

"Did I overwhelm you with my specialized, multi-T206 set collection ?"
Ted, YOUR post is about the Doyle error card, not specialized theory sub sets ... I responded to your Doyle error fake.

As a matter of fact (not theory ) you gave us a story that you set up that Doyle error fake on purpose, to see who would pick up on it.

Whether you tried to set us up, or not ... we picked up on the fake, and you were true to usual known form.

All I said :
Your first image was a fake, and your second real image was a bad scan, or xerox to stake your credibility on ... would you have a better scan?

As for your acceptance of the reality of the Doyle error card ... that happened within the last three years or so, and I an prove that.
Most other collectors knew the reality of the Doyle error card in 1987.

We're talking facts about the Doyle error card, not theories.

Can you account for the 7 Doyle error cards that you speak of?