'34 Diamond Stars #1- Lefty Grove

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

I purchased a Lefty over the weekend ungraded but approximately VG. On the back of the card the copyright date is 1934. In the SCD they say there's also Lefty's with a '35 copyright.

Also I understand there's a green back, but what color is the other back?

So does that make it 3 variations or 4? And are all the variations the same price.

These cards were distributed in '34 - '36. Does that mean that there are a lot more of these cards than the '33 Goudeys?

Peter C.

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Posted By: Steve

According to the PSA Pops there are over ten times more graded Goudeys. Not sure about the green/blk thing. Good luck

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Posted By: peter chao

Steve,

So apparently it's reversed, there are more '33 Goudey's than '34 Diamond Stars. Or perhaps, Diamond Stars is simply less collectible so people don't get their Diamond Stars graded?

Peter C.

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Posted By: cmoking

Steve, where are you getting that information? Here's what I see:

Total cards graded by PSA:

1933 Goudey: 40,040
1934 Diamond Stars: 1,349
1935 Diamond Stars: 10,907
1936 Diamond Stars: 2,074

On a per card basis, comingling all years and variations of the Diamond Stars and counting 108 cards in the set:

1933 Goudey: 166.8 per card
Diamond Stars: 132.7 per card

There are more Goudeys graded than Diamond Stars. But wait....Goudeys are more popular and there is more demand for a PSA 4 Goudey common than a PSA 4 Diamond Stars common. Instead of looking at all PSA graded cards, let's look at only the PSA 7 and higher...the ones that would be worth it to grade (if you are selling) no matter the card in either set.

PSA 7 and higher PSA pop
Goudey: 8,173 or 34.1 per card
Diamond Stars: 5,670 or 52.5 per card

I'm assuming that both Goudeys and Diamond Stars are equally tough in high grade since they both came in packs, use about the same card stock (I think) and are from the same era. Based on this info, I think Diamond Stars are more prevalent than Goudeys.

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Posted By: Steve

King, Considering Im a proud Boston Public alum here... I have to say, I'm spot on

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Posted By: Matt

IT may be worthwhile to compare 1 or 2 superstars (say the Foxx and Hornsby) from each was those should have equal impetus to be graded in either set, regardless of condition.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

My 1934s, some are green, some are blue.
Same for 1935, some green, some blue.
My 1936s are all blue.


This is a link to Blacksoxfan.com's site, that has an Excel list of the cards. He usually knows his stuff, and if I understand the list correctly there are 2 Grove cards, a 1934 and a 1935, both green.

http://blog.blacksoxfan.com/


If you like National Chicle cards, look into their Sky Birds set. 108 cards. And it will drive you nuts. I've heard of 2 sets that have been completed, and I suspect there are others. One tough, complicated, interesting set.

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Posted By: Brad Green

There are only two Grove Diamond Stars. Both are green and both have 1934 copyrights. The only difference is that one card shows his 1933 stats (with his age as 34 years old) and the other shows his 1934 stats (with his age as 35 years old). The picture of both backs below is shown on my website (http://www.bandkgreen.net/lefty_grove).

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Posted By: peter chao

Brad,

Are you telling me that there is no Lefty Grove with 1935 copyright?

Peter C.

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Posted By: Brad Green

Yes.

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Posted By: Brad Green

The card on the left is considered the 1934 version. The card on the right is considered the 1935 version.

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Posted By: Paul S

Wow, he went from 24-8 to 8-8 in one year? Anything behind that? Injury?

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Posted By: Matt

it was his second year in the league - probably there wasn't enough tape of him to study when he was an RC, and during his second year, they were better able to analyze the tape and see exactly where and when he was throwing his pitches using sabermetrics.

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Posted By: dennis

peter,post a scan of the back of the card.

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Posted By: Brad Green

Lefty had arm trouble in 1934. That was just after he was traded to the Red Sox. That is the time when Lefty lost his fastball and had to use other (slower) pitches to stay on top. The Red Sox even pulled some of his teeth thinking that teeth problems were causing his arm problems. He had it so rough, that Connie Mack even offered to take back Lefty because of all the problems.

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Posted By: Larry

Grove was the best pitcher in the minors from 1920-25. No major league team was willing to pay Jack Dunn (Orioles owner) his asking price for Grove ($100,000) to sign him until he was 25 years old. In 1934, he had been pitching 10 seasons in the majors and got sold by Connie Mack to the Red Sox for $125,000 because Mack needed the money due to poor attendance during the Depression. He had to change his pitching style since his fastball was gone due to age. He became a control pitcher in 1934 throwing mostly curves and succeeded in making a successful comeback after an average 1934 season with his new team.

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Posted By: Paul S

"The Red Sox even pulled some of his teeth thinking that teeth problems were causing his arm problems.

Sounds totally medieval! Best you can hope for is that yanking his teeth took his mind off the season he was having!

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Posted By: Brad Green

As far as the SCD Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards and Lefty's Diamond Stars card:

The SCD recognizes Lefty's "1934 green back" and "1935 green back". There is no mention of copyright date in the SCD.


As far as Lefty Grove:

I believe that they also pulled Lefty's tonsils in 1934 in the hopes of eliminating his arm problems. In 1938 (I believe) Lefty had his second fight with arm problems. At that point, they restricted him to pitching only once/week (on Sundays) throughout the remainder of his career (which ended with the 1941 season). While most of this is off the top of my head, I must cite Jim Kaplan's Lefty Grove biography as the original source of this information.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Obviously, some folks on here know quite a bit about Mr. Grove and the nice Diamond Star cards...

Good job, guys.

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Posted By: Paul S

"I believe that they also pulled Lefty's tonsils in 1934 in the hopes of eliminating his arm problems."

My God, his teeth and then his tonsils? Thank heaven it stopped, or they'd had to have nicknamed him Headless Grove!