What's the deal with GAI graded cards??

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Posted By: rand

Are there any collectors who are building sets exclusively in these holders? Seems prices are extremely reasonable.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

My last several GAI purchases [see below]have turned out to be trimmed [by both SGC and PSA.] I have therefore stopped buyinging GAI cards.



Frank

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Posted By: steve

I recently sent into PSA seven GAI graded cards for crossover. Not one single card crossed, many deemed trimmed. That was big waste of time and money. I thought PSA had a beef with GAI, but when you say SGC also found evidence of trimming, my eyebrows raise.

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Posted By: Mark L

I take it that you were very surprised by PSA's rejection of all seven cards. After they examined the cards, did you, too, see evidence of trimming on all of them? Or could PSA have been being "hyper-critical" about some of the GAI grading? I should say that I have nothing against PSA. My experience with them, and with GAI, has been ok.

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Posted By: Anthony

I've had GAI graded cards rejected by PSA, and then grade (and sometimes bump up) when cracked out and graded raw. I've also seen some that were slabbed that were trimmed-badly. Comes down to buying the card, and not the holder.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I agree with Frank: I'm done with GAI as their cards never cross and are worth much less than their PSA and SGC counterparts.

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Posted By: leon

My experience with GAI is they have graded too loosely and have lost credibility due to that fact mainly. I haven't seen a large number of trims but maybe I just wasn't looking at the right cards. They do need to tighten up their grading. I have spoken to Mike Baker about this issue....he understands the perception (and to me the reality) and I believe they might have tightened up a little lately....I would like to see some examples of loose or too high of a grade.... ie..ex with paper loss...or a wrinkle, from recent submissions. As a banner advertiser I am pretty sure he reads the board too....regards

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Posted By: Brian

I have had many cards graded by GAI (mainly because they pre-grade at shows near me) and have always felt they were a bit tougher on my cards than PSA (by about a half grade on average). Having said that, I have never tried crossing them over. I have my cards graded mainly for purposes of preservation and presentation.

Apart from this issue, what is the evidence that GAI graded cards sell for less than their PSA or SGC counterparts, eye appeal being equal? I just have not seen this to be the case in either the big auctions or on eBay. Does anyone have some concrete comparisons in this regard?

Brian

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Posted By: Dylan

I think its safe to say that psa is a snob in the business. As for GAI, they certainly have been found to be a notch below the competition. Even if they toughen their standards, so many cards have been graded already, its going to be really tough to turn around.

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Posted By: Jimmy Piccuito

I have had similar experiences with GAI - and even some of the dealers I work with - when they were first grading at some of the shows - I went to PSA to see if they could grade some T205 cards I just purchased - but there were a few that were trimmed and re-colored - so they would not grade them – even I could kind of tell - then I noticed the GAI table was right in front of mine. One of the dealers next to me said see if GAI will grade them, and sure enough all 5 cards that were trimmed came back slabbed - they were not high grade - but still - they did not grade the few that were re-colored - so they did notice that. I went back to the dealer and got my money back - and I have never bought or sent another card to GAI - I am sure they have improved a bit - but I have never had a problem with PSA or SGC. I sell a lot of PSA cards and have SGC cards in my collection; it is hard to keep track of both when you are selling. Yes everyone makes mistakes even the graders, but when it is right in front of you, you just have to wonder what is going on here. I would try and examine the cards you send real close - so you know the card, just as well as the grader.

Take Care

Jimmy

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Posted By: Jim Dale

When people send in cards to PSA/SGC for grading from GAI are they doing so in the GAI case or cracking it and sending it in? I'm curious because I've heard that PSA (particularly) is hard on cross overs and some even suggest they use the opportunity to beat up on the competition?

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Posted By: aro13

~"Apart from this issue, what is the evidence that GAI graded cards sell for less than their PSA or SGC counterparts, eye appeal being equal? I just have not seen this to be the case in either the big auctions or on eBay. Does anyone have some concrete comparisons in this regard?"~

Brian,
If you look up any past auction results you will find GAI lags way behind.

Here are some results from the last Mastro auction.

T206 Ty Cobb Red Background
GAI 7 $3691
SGC 7 $6622

1915 Cracker Jack Napoleon Lajoie
PSA 8 $8012
GAI 8.5 $3691

1933 Sport Kings Babe Ruth
PSA 8 $27 584
GAI 8.5 $15 569

1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #144
PSA 8 $18 368
GAI 8.5 $16 698

1934 Goudey Lou Gehrig #61
PSA 8 $9424
GAI 8 $7530

1941 Playball Ted Williams
GAI 8 $2291
PSA 8 $3736

1959 Topps Willie Mays
GAI 9.5 $1420
PSA 9 $1837

1957 Topps Power Hitters - Mantle/Berra
GAI 9 $3120
PSA 9 $7361

1958 Topps World Series Batting Foes
GAI 9 $3355
PSA 9 $6019

1968 Topps Mickey Mantle
GAI 9.5 $1253
PSA 9 $1517

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

That's impressive. A number of the GAI cards brought half the prices of the PSA stuff.

Frank

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Jim, if that was the case (and I'm not saying it is), that would indicate that a company is not objective at grading. If a company would assign a different grade solely because it is the competition's holder, the company would assign a different grade for other reasons as well. Let's hope a company doesn't use grading as a tool to punish enemies and, the inevitable converse, reward allies. Because, if that's the case, the company would have no business grading cards.

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Posted By: Brian

Wow--those comparisons are startling. Not that I am going to sell any time soon, but that is definitely something to keep in mind--I hope GAI is listening.
Brian

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Posted By: rand

this is my second post about grading in general. I am pleased that people are being honest. We need grading companies to be good, and reliable. otherwise the collectors who own the cards will always be at their mercy. Amazing to me that such a phenominal idea many years ago has turned into the same farce as before grading became essential. How ironic that the sins of the hobby are still exactly the same except in plastic containers now.

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Posted By: E, Daniel

We've never had this particular discussion before on this board, and certainly never had people being honest about their feelings regarding the grading companies and the job they do.
If you could do me one favour, just one.....
Please leave all auctions for graded slabbed cards to the idiot collector like myself, so that I can continue to delude myslef about the authenticity and accuracy of their condition. For I blindly buy slabs and slips, not cards, and am just looking to get ripped off every opportunity I get. I'll take the fall, I promise, if EVERYONE would just leave such abominations for me to buy - and be stuck with down the line.
Clearly out of millions and millions of graded cards, every other one is pure trash.


In greatest appreciation for your expose of the grading companies.

Daniel

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Posted By: Jim Dale

I agree it questions the integrity of the grading process if cards are down graded simply because they come in - in another companies holder. But don't you wonder? I do.

It would be "intriguing" to see 10 GAI and 10 SGC cards sent to PSA in their holders; and then send them in a year later broken out as though they were raw and see if the same results are given....is there not anyone around here who would like to see the results of such a study? I know I would.

As to the selling prices of GAI cards - great report and finding - and not one that surprised me at all. It goes to make you wonder - just a little - are those GAI cards a bargain or if they are trimmed and touched up are they a HUGE risk?

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Posted By: Brad

Whatever happen to the saying "Buy The Card' Not The Grade!"?

If worried about losing part of your investment then simply cross over the card to SGC! How can you lose, if your card is NOT flawed?

GAI graded cards sell for less than their PSA or SGC counterparts, eye appeal being equal: Looks like someones buying the card not the grading Company! Someones makin some nice Money!

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Posted By: Brian

Jim,
that would be a great N54 project, perhaps one that could be initiated at the National, since the major grading companies should all be there. I think it would be extraordinarily informative for all of us collectors. A "definitive" Mother-of-All-Grading-Company-Comparisons...

But I would add at least one modification: to gain statistical significance, you'd probably need more than 10 of each, and I think you'd want to have a distribution of both high and medium/low-grade cards, although I guess for the purposes of this comparison, perhaps only the high grade cards are relevant (although this would not really affect me too much, since I am not a Backbone of the Hobby). On the other hand, Vg-Ex cards can also be trimmed.
Brian

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Posted By: Pcelli60

GAI is dead in my eyes..Two sweet T205's shifted in the holders. One slightly damaged. I could choke the son-of-a-gun who did it..I remember just a few years ago they became the darling new kids on the block. They must have become overwhelmed with submissions and could'nt handle it..Shame

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Posted By: Bob

To each his own. I have had cards rejected by GAI for trimming or rather slabbed "authentic" then cracked out and submitted to PSA and SGC and they graded.
Buy the card, buy the holder. I have seen some horrible looking PSA 4 caramel cards. Does that mean I'll never buy PSA cards? No. It means BUY THE CARD NOT THE HOLDER.
The caramel cards I have sent to SGC and GAI generally come back with almost the same grades for similar condition. My experience has NOT been that GAI grades easier on caramel cards.
To each his own....