moderating on the board

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- why would Howard Stern being any less culpabale if he said the same thing?

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Posted By: rob

Tom,

that was brilliant!

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Posted By: E, Daniel

James and Joanne.

If any man calls my little girl a whore - I'm not going to wait and listen and hear the man out. I'm going to f@#* him up. That is, unless society takes the appropriate action, and f@#*s him up for me. Political correctness? I prefer to think of it as Moral correctness, and your right to be a miserable piece of scum only extends so far as you limit your hurt to yourself, and not others. When you hurt others, saying sorry as some get out of jail card just diappears. Step on my toe, sorry works. Demean my child in a way that may stick with her for years, affect how she interacts with society, whether she feels safe.....nah, sorry doesn't work all that well.


How's that for simple, the right of free speech, and the likelihood of repurcussions?
Doesn't bother you so much? That's great, no doubt your children will appreciate your devotion to freedom of speech were they to experience such defiling description. You'll be their absolute hero, no doubt!

Daniel

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Posted By: Rob

Steve M., I'm from Connecticut, but spent ages 8-15 in Jacksonville, Florida. I heard the term alot in grade school and picked it up there.

So, if i understand correctly, a person of non-African decent can't have nappy hair? I don't get it. "nappy" seems like an adjective. greasy or frizzy. I didn't realize it was racial so maybe I won't use it anymore.

Rob

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Barry, Howard Stern says offensive stuff every day - he gets away with it because it's his schtick and nobody takes him seriously... I don't think people realize that Imus was the same type of shock jock as Stern in his early radio days...I also think you can't say that type of stuff though when you work for NBC and CBS and they acted appropriately in this case. They can't afford to lose viewers, listeners and sponsors.

With that said I think Al Sharpton is a despicable man...one only need to remember the Tawana Brawley case and just recently the comments he made about NY City police officers involved in the Sean Bell case. Why anyone gives him a platform to speak is amazing to me....it's probably the same reason the media still gives Ann Coulter a platform. It's no longer about reporting the news it's all about making it.

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Posted By: JK

"If it were your daughter who played on the Rutger's basketball team, would you still be chuckling? Would you still be saying 'hey, it's America, he is free to express his opinions."

Barry - My answer is, I may not like that it was said and I may not agree with the statement, but I would absolutely still believe that he was free to express his opinions - as we all are. With regard to Imus, at the end of the day, his employer may not want him to express those opinions in the workplace (which in his case is on the air) and his employer is free to take any action it wishes to discipline him for those comments. As noted above, the Constitution on protects you from government interference with your right to expression. Your employer (assuming you work for a private employer) does not have to afford you any free speech rights.

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Posted By: John

“Doesn't bother you so much? That's great, no doubt your children will appreciate your devotion to freedom of speech were they to experience such defiling description. You'll be their absolute hero, no doubt!”

Daniel, tread lightly on that one, I know James and from what I know he and his wife are proud and wonderful parents. Kids couldn’t ask for a more loving home as far I can tell. So parenting advice aside, just keep that in mind. I think James and Joann are just voicing their opinions on the matter.

My take on freedom of speech is simple. Say what ever the hell you want, where you want, when you want. However be prepared for the repercussions of your statements and take your lumps, and don’t cry the blues or the victim when people don’t agree with your comments.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Exactly John. Know your audience and know your employer. Bill Maher got cancelled for saying something politically incorrect on his show of the same name. The Dixie Chicks got tarred/feathered and booted from Country Radio for saying they were embarrassed that Bush was from Texas, Imus got canned from MSNBC for inappropriate comments about the Rutgers basketball team.

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Posted By: JimB

I am for keeping this forum as it is. Even in this thread the underbelly of racisim rears its head and I personally don't mind knowing where people stand on these sorts of things, though I generally like to keep politics and religion out of my hobbies.

I saw Al Sharpton on CNN a couple of days ago and thought he was very articulate and on target. The interviewer kept trying to twist his words and he kept it pretty straightforward. When Imus went on his show to apologize and then called Sharpton's arguments "jive", I think it was very revealing of where he was coming from on race. In this democracy, he is free to say and think what he wants, but I don't think he is deserving of a pulpit where his opinions are broadcast to millions.


Barry,
I think there is a big difference between when Chris Rock or any African American uses the "N" word and when a white person does. When a white person (as a person from the historically oppressing class in this country) uses a term like that which has for centuries been used by whites to denigrate a race of people, it perpetuates everything negative about the word and the attitudes it represents. When a black person takes a term like and uses it in a way that disengages it from its traditionally oppressive usage, its affect can be transformative of traditional racist attudes. When Chris Rock uses it, it can stimulate reflection in positive ways. WHen a KKK member uses it, it perpetuates a tradition of hatred. I don't think it is as black and white (pardon the pun) as to say that either everyone can use a word or nobody can. I don't know if that is what you were suggesting or not, but your comment stimulated my response which is trying to highlight some of the nuances.
Jim

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Posted By: Steve f

The reverands Sharpton and Jackson are the epitome of opportunists and bigger 'sinners' by far. On Imus, I agree with them however. His show was sometimes funny, but that old Oscar the Grouch wanabe needed to go. I also believe Howard is far worse but protected, by cleverly teaming with Robin. Mod, You don't need to babysit us, much.

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Posted By: JK

"Even in this thread the underbelly of racisim rears its head"

Jim - I would sure like to know who you believe has shown themselves to be racist on this board. Because despite my belief that this whole situation is infested with hypocracy, it doesnt mean I or anyone else sharing my views are racist or otherwise believe Imus' comments were appropriate in any way.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- I know blacks use the "N" word among themselves as a way of demystifying it and rendering it powerless, but there is actually a movement now among blacks to take the word completely out of the vocabulary. However, what two friends say to each other is much different than what some insensitive idiot says over the airwaves.

And I am well aware of Al Sharpton's sordid past, and that whole Tawana Brawley fiasco. I'm not sticking up for him, but he is right in this instance to express his outrage. I'm not one of his fans for sure.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I've heard both African American and white kids using the N word with each other. I believe that the younger generation is - to use Barry's word demystifying the word. How many of us know that "Chicano" was a racist slur against Mexican Americans in Texas in the early 1900's? It was in the 1960s that Mexican American groups began to proudly call themselves Chicano's that the word lost it's original meaning. I'm not saying that the same thing should be done with the N word, but to today's kids the word does not have the same powerful hate attached to it that it does to the older generations.

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Posted By: JK

The problem Barry is that Sharpton's outrage is manufactured. I just don't buy it. Where was his outrage when Jackson was denengrading (sp?) Jewish people? Where is his outrage that three college students were wrongfully accused and convicted by many in the media, including himself, before any facts were known about the case?

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

Apologies if this was already posted.

COMMENTARY
Imus isn’t the real bad guy
Instead of wasting time on irrelevant shock jock, black leaders need to be fighting a growing gangster culture.
By JASON WHITLOCK
Columnist

Thank you, Don Imus. You’ve given us (black people) an excuse to avoid our real problem.

You’ve given Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson another opportunity to pretend that the old fight, which is now the safe and lucrative fight, is still the most important fight in our push for true economic and social equality.

You’ve given Vivian Stringer and Rutgers the chance to hold a nationally televised recruiting celebration expertly disguised as a news conference to respond to your poor attempt at humor.

Thank you, Don Imus. You extended Black History Month to April, and we can once again wallow in victimhood, protest like it’s 1965 and delude ourselves into believing that fixing your hatred is more necessary than eradicating our self-hatred.

The bigots win again.

While we’re fixated on a bad joke cracked by an irrelevant, bad shock jock, I’m sure at least one of the marvelous young women on the Rutgers basketball team is somewhere snapping her fingers to the beat of 50 Cent’s or Snoop Dogg’s or Young Jeezy’s latest ode glorifying nappy-headed pimps and hos.

I ain’t saying Jesse, Al and Vivian are gold-diggas, but they don’t have the heart to mount a legitimate campaign against the real black-folk killas.

It is us. At this time, we are our own worst enemies. We have allowed our youths to buy into a culture (hip hop) that has been perverted, corrupted and overtaken by prison culture. The music, attitude and behavior expressed in this culture is anti-black, anti-education, demeaning, self-destructive, pro-drug dealing and violent.

Rather than confront this heinous enemy from within, we sit back and wait for someone like Imus to have a slip of the tongue and make the mistake of repeating the things we say about ourselves.

It’s embarrassing. Dave Chappelle was offered $50 million to make racially insensitive jokes about black and white people on TV. He was hailed as a genius. Black comedians routinely crack jokes about white and black people, and we all laugh out loud.

I’m no Don Imus apologist. He and his tiny companion Mike Lupica blasted me after I fell out with ESPN. Imus is a hack.

But, in my view, he didn’t do anything outside the norm for shock jocks and comedians. He also offered an apology. That should’ve been the end of this whole affair. Instead, it’s only the beginning. It’s an opportunity for Stringer, Jackson and Sharpton to step on victim platforms and elevate themselves and their agenda$.

I watched the Rutgers news conference and was ashamed.

Martin Luther King Jr. spoke for eight minutes in 1963 at the March on Washington. At the time, black people could be lynched and denied fundamental rights with little thought. With the comments of a talk-show host most of her players had never heard of before last week serving as her excuse, Vivian Stringer rambled on for 30 minutes about the amazing season her team had.

Somehow, we’re supposed to believe that the comments of a man with virtually no connection to the sports world ruined Rutgers’ wonderful season. Had a broadcaster with credibility and a platform in the sports world uttered the words Imus did, I could understand a level of outrage.

But an hourlong press conference over a man who has already apologized, already been suspended and is already insignificant is just plain intellectually dishonest. This is opportunism. This is a distraction.

In the grand scheme, Don Imus is no threat to us in general and no threat to black women in particular. If his words are so powerful and so destructive and must be rebuked so forcefully, then what should we do about the idiot rappers on BET, MTV and every black-owned radio station in the country who use words much more powerful and much more destructive?

I don’t listen or watch Imus’ show regularly. Has he at any point glorified selling crack cocaine to black women? Has he celebrated black men shooting each other randomly? Has he suggested in any way that it’s cool to be a baby-daddy rather than a husband and a parent? Does he tell his listeners that they’re suckers for pursuing education and that they’re selling out their race if they do?

When Imus does any of that, call me and I’ll get upset. Until then, he is what he is — a washed-up shock jock who is very easy to ignore when you’re not looking to be made a victim.

No. We all know where the real battleground is. We know that the gangsta rappers and their followers in the athletic world have far bigger platforms to negatively define us than some old white man with a bad radio show. There’s no money and lots of danger in that battle, so Jesse and Al are going to sit it out.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Josh- I think you are focussing too much on Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. I almost don't even care what they have to say. But I am very focussed on what Don Imus said.

And Peter- you can put any spin you want on the fact that the African-American community has milked this incident for all it was worth. But it's not what I'm concerned with. I'm concerned with that waste of time named Don Imus, and all the other shock jocks who make a living acting like idiots. In the last ten years I don't think I've listened to three minutes of talk radio, because I believe it is all worthless. I have the radio on all day since I work at home, and I pretty much listen to classic rock. John Lennon and Bob Dylan have a lot of important things to say. Don Imus has no clue, so he covers it up by being a pig. That's what you do when you are devoid of any discernable talent.

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Posted By: Al S

Peter well put well said LEON read your words its time to close the thread!!!

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

Do you feel the same way about MTV and the record companies and the radio stations and the African-American DJ's promoting rap music that is far more offensive than anything Imus said?

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Posted By: E, Daniel

"Protected groups can say anything, and if it so happens to cross the line, then no worries, they can simply apologize. Their historic oppression has entitled them to not be responsible for words they may utter. Non-protected groups have to monitor themselves and if they cross the line, there's hell to pay, an NO apology can take it back or make ammends. "

"Protected groups"? "Non protected groups"? To me, even understanding Wonka's post, this statement boldly paints one person's understanding of the world he lives in, that he feels not part of a larger grouping called human beings and universal rights and wrongs, but instead segregated groupings whose experiences are so different he is mystefied by their brutalized journey into society's grudging acceptance.
You can taste the very distaste and disapproval in the words, and gnawing injustice he percieves.

Makes me sick. Same way people talk about "the jews in holliwood and how they run everything" even as they follow up with "not that there's anything wrong with that, you've got to give them credit for being so creative and ingenious at coopting all that power..".
Or on gays and "their lifestyles", and how many white christians truly believe in their soul that these 'people' are only getting what they deserve and gods corrective punishment.

For me, anytime you seperate yourself from understanding injustice that would be injustice in your own world every-bit-as-much as it is in someone else's, you add a grain of intolerance and hate into this world.
Just because justice doesn't come equally to all people at all times, doesn't mean you shouldn't believe that it must at every opportunity it can.


Daniel

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Posted By: John

Having free speech and being an American is defending someone’s right to speak freely words that would otherwise make your blood boil.

I don’t condone racism/bigotry in any way.

However I will defend your right to be one if you feel the need. And in defending your statements I’m not agreeing with them, just simply agreeing you have the right to voice them.

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Posted By: JK

Barry,

Im really not focused on that at all. My main problem is that this entire situation should be over by now. Its being made into a much bigger deal than it ever should have been for publicity.

As for Imus, I think you'd be surprised about how much good he actually does - today, on his show (as he has done for the last 14 years) he was hosting a fundraiser for SIDs research. He founded and operates a ranch for kids with cancer (most of whom come from disadvantaged backgrounds). His commentary directly led to the Senate passing a law providing for greater death benefits to those serving our country in the military. He funded a kids cancer (I believe) wing at Hackensack Medical Center. Im not trying to sound like an Imus apologist, but I think its important to know something about what he actually does and not make broad generalizations.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Peter- I hate rap music and the message it sends. Women are just worthless sex objects and according to them if you have to slap them around that's perfectly alright. Not only do I hate the message, but I hate the whole genre. It offends me that that is what passes for pop culture today. As far as MTV, I don't watch it, so I don't know what goes on there.

Peter- you asked me if it was more offensive. I'd say both are equally offensive, no need to compare one as better or worse.

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Posted By: JK

Daniel,

Please dont post threads that appear to attribute quotes to me that I did not make.

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Posted By: John

“To me, even understanding Wonka's post, this statement boldly paints one person's understanding of the world he lives in, that he feels not part of a larger grouping called human beings and universal rights and wrongs, but instead segregated groupings whose experiences are so different he is mystefied by their brutalized journey into society's grudging acceptance.
You can taste the very distaste and disapproval in the words, and gnawing injustice he percieves.”

Daniel, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one…but where are you heading with the above comment. Are insinuating I have no comprehension of the world around me???? Or that I’m insensitive to suffering of the world????

Care to elaborate???

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Posted By: peter chao

Barry, Peter S., guys

Imus didn't really make a rascist comment, I believe he said the women's basketball team were ho's, that's a sexist term not a rascist term.

But I agree with Barry, people shouldn't take what an idiot says too seriously. Instead, they should be focusing on what our politicians are saying. Now that I think about it that would also be a mistake because at times their comments are just as idiotic.

Peter

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Posted By: leon

I think I got my answer. I will continue moderating the way I have been. Thanks to all for the good feedback. Let's all try to play nicely together. I will continue to moderate with as little editing, censorship, or moderating as is possible, per the rules. I do believe everyone should get to voice their opinion. We can all form our own opinions, of each other, that way. best regards....now back to cards...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Josh- I know about his work with cancer and I hope he continues doing what he has done. But his charity work and his outrageous comment exist in separate universes. One doesn't exonerate the other. He messed up big time, and I think it's too late for an apology.

He should get off the radio and continue doing all the other good things he has done to help sick children.