Kleinow (Boston) + Smith (Chicago & Boston) Back Survey

Archive · #1 03-27-2007, 07:26 PM

Posted By: Scot Reader

These two somewhat scarce T206 subjects seem to turn up disproportionately with the Polar Bear back. The only Kleinow (Boston) I ever owned had this back. So time for another T206 survey! What back do your Kleinow (Boston) and Smith (Chicago & Boston) have? Polar Bear--or something else?

Archive · #2 03-27-2007, 07:34 PM

Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

My Kleinow (Boston) has a Sweet Capopral Cigarettes 350-460 Subjects, Factory No. 42 back.

Patrick

Archive · #3 03-27-2007, 07:43 PM

Posted By: Steve M.

Piedmont 350-460, Factory 25, 2d Dist VA

Archive · #4 03-27-2007, 07:43 PM

Posted By: John

Kleinow (Boston)= Sweet Caporal 350-460

Smith (Chicago & Boston)= Piedmont 350-460

Archive · #5 03-27-2007, 07:51 PM

Posted By: MVSNYC

Kleinow, Bos PSA 5 = PB

Smith, Chi & Bos PSA 5 = PB

Archive · #6 03-27-2007, 07:53 PM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

SCOT

Red Kleinow (Boston)....Piedmont 460 and Polar Bear

Smith (Chi & Bos).......

Piedmont 460/25

Piedmont 460/42

American Bty 460

Cycle 460

Old Mill

Polar Bear

Sweet Cap 460/42

Sweet Cap 460/42 ovpt

TED Z

Archive · #7 03-27-2007, 07:56 PM

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hey Scot,

My Kleinow Boston is a Polar Bear back...

My card of Frank "Piano Mover" Smith, Chicago and Boston, is a Piedmont 350-460 Factory 25.

Archive · #8 03-27-2007, 08:49 PM

Posted By: George Dreher

I bet the American Beauty & Cycle back (Smith, Chicago and Boston) cards would bring one heck of a premium.

Archive · #9 03-27-2007, 09:03 PM

Posted By: Ray Piskadlo

Kleinow (Boston) = Polar Bear
Smith (Chi & Bos) = Piedmont 350-460 42 NC

Archive · #10 03-27-2007, 09:56 PM

Posted By: John

George, how about you with 6000+ T206's I bet you have some odd backs, also how many of the above card are in there and what backs are on them??

Archive · #11 03-27-2007, 10:04 PM

Posted By: Jim Dale

Archive · #12 03-27-2007, 10:15 PM

Posted By: George Dreher

John, according to my inventory list:

Kleinow (Boston) = Piedmont, Polar Bear, Sweet Caporal

Smith (Chicago & Boston) = Old Mill, Piedmont, Polar Bear, Sweet Caporal

Archive · #13 03-27-2007, 10:31 PM

Posted By: barry arnold

Kleinow bost. catching Pied 350-460/25
Smith chi,bost Polar Bear

all the best,

barry

Archive · #14 03-27-2007, 10:32 PM

Posted By: daryle

cards has a Sweet Caporal 350-460 w/overprint back (the neat little ornate design). Don't remember exactly what backs the other two, but I believe they were both Polar Bear backs(???)

Archive · #15 03-27-2007, 10:39 PM

Posted By: Ed McCollum

Polar Bear for both

Archive · #16 03-27-2007, 11:19 PM

Posted By: steve yawitz

I only have the Kleinow, which is an Old Mill.

http://imageevent.com/yawie99

Archive · #17 03-27-2007, 11:57 PM

Posted By: Zach S.

My Kleinow (Boston) is Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fact. 42

Zach S.

Archive · #18 03-28-2007, 04:00 AM

Posted By: Martin Neal

Hi Scot,

Kleinow (Boston) - Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 42 overprint
Smith (Chicago and Boston) - Piedmont 350-460 Factory 25
Smith (Chicago and Boston) - Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 42 overprint

Archive · #19 03-28-2007, 04:08 AM

Posted By: Shawn

Scot,

I have one of the two cards:

Kleinow (Boston) Sweet Cap. 350-460 Fact. 42

Cheers,

Shawn

Archive · #20 03-28-2007, 07:15 AM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

My Smith, AmBty 460 and Cycle 460 are, at best, Vg and they are "naked" cards, so I don't really think
these two would get big $$'s on ebay. Besides, tough cards like these, will remain in my collection.

I do appreciate your compliments.

TED Z

Archive · #21 03-28-2007, 07:39 AM

Posted By: Mike Ernst

Mine are:
Kleinow: Polar Bear
Smith: Polar Bear and Piedmont 460/25

Archive · #22 03-28-2007, 08:17 AM

Posted By: rob

kleinow - Polar Bear

Archive · #23 03-28-2007, 08:48 AM

Posted By: Scot Reader

Thanks for the responses so far. Here is the tally (excluding factory designations):

Kleinow:

Polar Bear = 8/21 = 38%
Piedmont = 4/21 = 19%
Sweet Cap = 7/21 = 33%
Old Mill = 1/21 = 5%
Broad Leaf = 1/21 = 5%

Smith:

Polar Bear = 6/22 = 27%
Piedmont = 8/22 = 36%
Sweet Cap = 4/22 = 18%
Old Mill = 2/22 = 9%
American Beauty = 1/22 = 5%
Cycle = 1/22 = 5%

It's pretty clear these subjects are overrepresented with Polar Bear relative to typical 350/460 RP and 460-only subjects. Keep the responses coming!

Archive · #24 03-28-2007, 08:51 AM

Posted By: MVSNYC

hmmm, definitely a pattern developing...

the majority of these 2 cards do have Polar Bear backs.

can we draw any parallels between these 2 cards and demmitt & o'hara?

Archive · #25 03-28-2007, 08:59 AM

Posted By: T206Collector

...Kleinow's (Boston) I have owned have been Piedmont and Sweet Caps.

My Frank Smith (CHI/BOS) is a Polar Bear.

Archive · #26 03-28-2007, 09:27 AM

Posted By: martindl

My Kleinow is Piedmont 460 with Factory 42.

Archive · #27 03-28-2007, 10:32 AM

Posted By: Millerhouse

I have a Smith, Chic. & Bos., with a Uzit back.

Dan

Archive · #28 03-28-2007, 11:07 AM

Posted By: Scot Reader

Michael,

We know that Kleinow (Boston) and Smith (Both) were printed near the end of the 350/460 RP print run (for more information on this see my post on the recent thread on Demmitt and O'Hara started by Ted Z.). And it seems from this survey, at least preliminarily, that these two subjects are overrepresented with Polar Bear and Piedmont Factory 42 backs. This suggests a possible sequential printing of the 350/460 RP series in which at least the lion's share of the Polar Bear and Piedmont Factory 42 backed cards were printed near the end. Note that this is consistent with Factory 42 being a later factory; there are no Factory 42 backs the 150-only, 150/350 or 350-only series.

Any connection between the overrepresentation of these subjects with Polar Bear and Demmitt and O'Hara (St. Louis) is not clear to me; although it is very interesting that all four of these "team change" subjects were printed disproportionately (in the case of Kleinow and Smith) or solely (in the case of Demmitt and O'Hara) with that back.

Scot

Archive · #29 03-28-2007, 11:43 AM

Posted By: T206Collector

...these kinds of threads are.

Archive · #30 03-28-2007, 11:51 AM

Posted By: MVSNYC

Scot-

well explained, thanks...

Archive · #31 03-28-2007, 12:26 PM

Posted By: Bob C

I also have SGC Smith Chicago & Boston with Uzit Back. (Thanks Craig D!)

Archive · #32 03-28-2007, 12:55 PM

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted and Scot,
Nice thread.. I'm sorry to chime in so late, but I've been a bit under the weather. Here are my totals:

Kleinow:
Polar Bear
Piedmont 25 460
Piedmont 42 460
Lenox
Sweet Cap 42 460

Smith:
Polar Bear
Piedmont 42 460
American Beauty 460
Cycle 460

Archive · #33 03-28-2007, 01:13 PM

Posted By: Matt

Chalk up one more Kleinow (Boston) - Piedmont "350-460" Fac. 25

Archive · #34 03-28-2007, 01:46 PM

Posted By: Andy

Kleinow, Boston - Polar Bear

Thanks,

Andy

Archive · #35 03-28-2007, 06:53 PM

Posted By: Scot Reader

Thanks for the additinal input. Brian, since Lenox is far more often seen on traditional 460-only subjects than 350/460 RP subjects and since Kleinow is not a traditional 460-only subject but rather a 350/460 RP subject in disguise (that is, experienced the 460 portion of the 350/460 RP print run), I strongly suspect that your Kleinow Lenox is unique.

Archive · #36 03-28-2007, 07:32 PM

Posted By: Anonymous

Hi Scott

Smith(Chicago and Boston) SC 460 overprint

Kleinow Polar Bear

Drew

Archive · #37 03-28-2007, 09:40 PM

Posted By: Ron

Mine are both sweet cap 350-460 factory 42

Archive · #38 03-28-2007, 10:29 PM

Posted By: Lee Behrens

Here are the ones that ihave or have owned:

Kleinow:

Old Mill
Cycle
Sweet Cap
Polar Bear

Smith:

Old Mill
Cycle
Piedmont Fact 42

Lee

Archive · #39 03-29-2007, 01:45 AM

Posted By: Elliot

Kleinow--Sweet Cap
Smith--PB

Archive · #40 03-29-2007, 01:54 AM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I found another Kleinow (Boston)....Sweet Caporal 460, Fac. 42 ovpt

Pictures speak louder than words....26 years of collecting T206's, yields....

Archive · #41 03-29-2007, 07:22 AM

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Scot, Here is a picture of the Lenox. I'm not sue I've seen another..

Archive · #42 03-29-2007, 02:41 PM

Posted By: Judson Hamlin

are both Polar Bears here.

Archive · #43 03-30-2007, 03:53 PM

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

These two cards been confirmed with a dozen different backs....10 of which are
common two both Subjects (Piedmont thru to Tolstoi).

Where they differ are......

Kleinow........Broad Leaf 460, Lenox, and Red HINDU

F Smith........American Beauty 460 and UZIT

Does anyone know if they are available with any other backs ?

TED Z

Archive · #44 03-30-2007, 04:53 PM

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
I have seen the Smith with a Lenox back too.... Be well Brian

Archive · #45 03-30-2007, 06:28 PM

Posted By: Jeremy

I don't know if this helps, but I sold a Polar Bear Smith(both)GAI 2.5 on ebay in September of '06.

Archive · #46 03-30-2007, 08:30 PM

Posted By: Mike (18colt)

Kleinow (Boston) -- Polar Bear

Smith (Chicago & Boston) -- Polar Bear

Mike (18colt)

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