Ok, maybe I think about this stuff too much, but I really don't understand it all yet.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I did not know, for example, that a type card collector would prefer a HOFer over a high quality card example for his type card set. Ok, so it is not really a pseudo type card set, but more a collection with dual or multiple objectives - I have that.

But if the player is important, why does anybody collect sets of players who nobody knows? You know these sets. They are called Obak, Zeenuts, t210, and others. I mean not a few examples, but these are big sets! Full of I don't know (he is on third). With only an occasional Joe D., Claxton, Thorpe, etc. Why do these sets have a strong following = what am I missing?

Edited to add:

And worse - Zach shows off his prize for this month - a Contentnea Lathrop, Raleigh of the Eastern Carolina Leagues. Possibly the same Lathrop who finished up his two year career with the White Sox with no batting average and a 1-3 won/loss record. A clearly well loved card! But why would anyone love it today?

No intents offended here. I just don't have the requisite sophistication to fully appreciate the nuances of our hobby.

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Posted By: fkw

PCL (Pacific Coast League) collectors love these sets. I am not an expert on the PCL, still leaning every day. Besides the obvious super stars like the DiMaggio brother, O'Doul, Waner, etc., there are a lot of interesting players who played in the PCL. Some are Crosetti, Gregg, Hitt, Holder, Rapp, Ryan, Strand, Frederick, Jacobs, etc. Every player I just listed in in the PCL Hall of Fame, and for good reason, they had great careers in the PCL, with some amazing stats and accomplishments.

If you ever read one of the few great PCL History books, you might get hooked on trying to find cards of some of these West Coast heros of the 1910-40s era. I just read a book a few months back I found in my local library, I had to go home and look up info on some of these great players, and have been hooked ever since.

I actually add a premium to these PCL HOFers cards, similar to the premium added to a ML HOFer. So if you ever see a Buddy Ryan or Elmer Jacobs card, remember these are Hall of Fame players in their league, and should be in more of a demand than a common player.

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Posted By: leon

I like a lot of them purely for their asthetic appeal......They really are little pieces of art and many are fascinating....I know this is old news but can you ever see cards like this too often ? I know many other board members have some too.....let's show ole Gil some of them....

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Posted By: Joe Jones

Beautiful Colors

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hey Gilbert...

If you read about baseball, then you might develop an appreciation for those cards. I'm enchanted with T210s, although I've just about sold all I have other than series 6 cards and a type card of the other 7 series... so I can try to complete series 6, the Bluegrass League. I'm from Kentucky. The cards are little pieces of history. If you read the old guide books (I prefer the red Spalding Records to the green Guides) then you'll know a bit about these guys. Those T210 guys played all their games in the daytime. Stayed in hotels in small towns while on the road. Probably borded at someone's house during the season in the home town.

I have about 100 ZeeNut cards. They are wonderful. Years ago some players preferred the PCL over the majors, they made more money and the weather was better. They could make more money because the season was longer.

But if you don't read, then you won't know what these guys did, or what was going on...

Leon's beautiful card is more than just art, it is a piece of history. Seeing those cards, studying them, preserving them, that all keeps alive the memory of those that played the game.

A good friend, a baseball fan, told me a few years ago that I was not a baseball fan. I thought he had gone nuts. But he insisted that I was not a fan of baseball. I asked why I wasn't. He told me I was a fan of 19th and 20th century baseball. But in a time when a shortstop makes so much (25mil)in a season that a team would need $8 from the sale of every ticket, and have attentance of over 3 million to cover his salary... that in such times that I could not be a fan of that. And with that I decided he may well be right. The guys on the 40 man roster get at least $300,000 in salary, about $140,000 from player association money each year (licensing, baseball cards... this funded the last strike, read Card Sharks), and about $120 per diem for expenses while on the road. I'm not a fan of that. Get a copy of Baseball, The Writer's Game by Shannon, and read what Larry Ritter (author of The Glory of Their Times, a book that would help you like the old cards) and read what Larry has to say about today's game.

I've been reading a bit to learn about markets and economics in medieval times. Only way to develop an understanding is to read about it. Pretty much the same with learning about these old cards, Pop Dillon, Fred Toney, Walter Carlisle, Roy Hitt... I love these guys!!!!

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Posted By: Zach Rice

What Frank and Leon said pretty much goes for me as well. I enjoy the looks of the cards and I enjoy the history behind them. I also like working on sets, or even subsets. In the case of the Lathrop, I purchased it soley on I really enjoy T209-2s and the picture which I also really enjoyed. I haven't even tried to look him up yet, though I probably will later tonight. Many of the PCL issues are some of my favorite issues of all time. You won't be finding floating heads in in front of a blue background in any set that shows major leaguers. And how about the N321 set, 40 cards in total and all are from the California League. I think this set is one of the most colorful of it's time and rivals the N162 set.

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Gil:

It all basically comes down to the concept of "collect what you want to collect," but unless you're collecting baseball cards just to look at the pretty pictures it's hard not to take some of your direction based on knowledge (even at the most rudimentary level) of the game.

After having read Nemec's books covering 19th century baseball, I wanted to see the players who did the things he was writing about. When the game was just beginning there were so many "firsts" and the Old Judge set has pictures of many of the players who accomplished the feats. Sure, there are period stars in that set for whom supporters claim Hall of Fame credentials (Browning, Mullane and Van Haltren to name just a few). Someone like Paul Hines, on the other hand, will never make the Hall of Fame and he's not exactly a household name, but he was the first professional Triple Crown winner. I collect Hall of Famers as well, but I'm just as happy to get a common of a player nobody knows because I know who he is.

Kevin

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Posted By: Chad

I just finished my biography of Ed Delahanty and, one of the ironies of the book is that people complained then about ball players in the EXACT same way we do today. They make too much money, they're mercenaries, they only care about their individual stats, etc etc. And this was 1896! You should read some of the columns sports writers wrote about Delahanty. You close your eyes after reading one and you see Gary Sheffield.

As to the topic at hand...I love collecting cards of obscure ballplayers. I'm working on the Cuban Aguilitas set from 1926 and there's maybe 4 guys in that set anyone's ever heard of, and that's being generous. Why I do this I can't exactly say. But then, I can't say why I do anything, really.

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Posted By: Andy Cook

Here's my N321, I agree one of the most beautiful sets ever produced.

Andy

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Posted By: Joe D.

A guy could go broke on N54! Too much cool stuff being introduced to me.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Thank you, Gentlemen. I guess that I shouldn't be surprised at the response nor the obvious passion expressed. However, the message "Gil, you haven't done your homework, again" is both true and unreasonable imho.
In my defense:
My collection requires me to search for tidbits of trivia through volumes of MLB history. I enjoy the search, but currently I discard over 99% of the information which I read. Recently, with the encouragement of Chad and others I have undertaken the task of including the Negro Leagues (and there is more than 1) in my study area.

Now the Negro Leagues' history is filled with color (no pun intended) and sketchy, confusing, and incomplete information. Wading through this stuff is cumbersome and rewarding. The cards, at best, are much more like the Contentnea than the beauties shown in this thread. (I do like those eerie floating heads of Leon's) tho.

So, it is reasuring that once I know it all in MLB + the Negro Leagues, I can "advance" to the Minors - who could possibly know all of this?

Thank you for your insight, and especially for the card scans, guys! Im going to look at 'em again, now.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Geez, Obaks are BEAUTIFUL, and I know nothing about any of the players. I can't think of two better reasons to start collecting them!

Most of the time when I start working on a set, I know very little about it, and often know very little about the players. I learn as I go; that's what makes it fun for me. So I guess in my case, I start with a year and a set, and learn about it as I progress - not the other way around.

-Al

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

And the links. They gave me great insight into the PCL. It is a great compliment to my focus on the Negro Leagues. Things were quite different. And I think that things stayed quite different way beyond what the common perception is. But I don't know that yet.

Thanks for those, fkw.