Post War Vintage....1949 Leaf Paige

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Continuing from my previous post. When we were kids in the
late '40s, we loved to watch Satchell Paige pitch. He had an
unusual double-loop wind up in his pitching motion which we
all tried to emulate.

And, don't get me wrong, I loved Mickey since I was an avid
Yankee fan. I still quite well remember when I opened my very
last wax pack of 1952 Topps Hi#s in the fall of '52. I put
the skinny slab of Topps bubble gum in my mouth and carefully
removed the cards....1st one was George Spencer, then Hal
Jeffcoat, Billy Herman, Ben Chapman, and Mickey Mantle.

Boy was I excited as I ran home as fast as I could to show off
my Mantle card to all my buddies..

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Posted By: Andy Baran

My experience is that Levi always has several 49 Leaf Paige's to go with his multiple 52 Topps Mantle's. When compared to pre-war cards, neither of these cards is particularly rare.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Andy I hate to disagree with you, but at the Sept and Dec Philly Shows
I do not recall him having any '49 L Paige cards. His booth is just an
aisle over from mine and I always check in with him on Friday afternoon.
So, I get to check-out what cards he has before he sells them.

And, I believe I just said in my prior post how available the Mantle card is.
But, I see a lot more pre-WWI and pre-WWII cards of HOFers than the Leaf
Paige. For example the availability of any of the T206 Ty Cobbs, whether
on Ebay or at Shows, far out does the Paige.

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Posted By: Andy Baran

The T206 Cobb is not scarce by pre-war standards either. The Leaf Paige is harder to find than most other cards in the set (which I think is due to popularity as much as true population variances), and it is certainly more difficult than a 52 Topps Mantle, but it is hardly a scarce card. At one time (before the internet became so popular) I would agree that the Paige was a tough card to find. I don't believe this is the case any longer. I guess that scarce is a relative term. Paige may be the most scarce card from the Leaf set (and therefore making it the most scarce card from a "major" card set), but there are many more post war cards that are far more scarce than the Paige. In general terms, I don't consider it a scarce card. Just my opinion.

By the way, I'm not trying to knock the Leaf Paige in any way. It is an awesome card, and I have owned one in the past (sold last year). I believe that the Paige should be more valuable than the 52 Topps Mantle in every grade, but that is simply not the case in reality. I just felt that calling that card scarce on a vintage baseball forum that discusses truly scarce cards was a bit of mis-information.

I don't go to many shows these days, and it is possible that Levi has sold his inventory of Leaf Paige's, but I have seen multiple Leaf Paige's in varying grades (at the same time) at his table in the past.

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Posted By: identify7

The "straights" know little to nothing about Paige, Wagner, Jackson nor others. If you are not into this, but want a baseball card to go with your misc. other coffee table drawer crap, the '52 Mantle card is the choice preferred by 3 out of 4 straights.

Guess how many straights there are, compared to how many of us there are.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Gil

Who are the "straights" ?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Andy B.

At least we seem to agree that the 1949 Leaf Paige card is tougher to
find than the 1952 Topps Mantle.

However, I take issue with you, implying that this Paige Thread is not
applicable to this "Vintage" card Forum. If this subject on this Forum
was "O/T", then Leon would have made that determination and edited it
out.
Look, I have posted all the colorful pages of my N162 Album, which is
arguably one of the scarcest 19th Century Vintage items; and, it got
very little response on this Forum. I have posted my 1880's colorful
Scorecard and there was very little response; although, Bill Heitman
did and I am thankful for his response. And, I have initiated Threads
which stimulated some "heavy" thoughts on mysteries of certain T206
cards; and, those posts have not really generated the response that
this Paige card Thread has.

So, you tell me what subject is appropriate to post on this Forum, ?

Because in the 5 months that I have been part of it, I really could
not tell you.

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Posted By: Chris

Amen Ted! I for one am enjoying this thread. I have always been fascinated with this set and have always wanted to work on it but feel I am much too late to start it now. I don't know how scarce the Paige is but I think the reason you may not see so many offered is the fact he is a very popular player with very few cards available and I think people don't want to part with them if they have them. Not that I think there are a ton of them out there. Sometimes I think we call something scarce when in reality it is just an item that doesn't come up for sale often because coillectors want to hold onto them. Ted, what do you know about the printing of this set? Given the SP's in the set. There is a common in this set, the name escapes me right now that almost never comes up for sale. BTW Ted, for what it is worth, I love your posts. I don't always respon but always read them.

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Ted,

I have no issue discussing the 49 Leaf Set on this site. Please show me where I said that I had an issue with it, or said that it was off topic. My only issue is that I felt that you misrepresented the scarcity of the card. There are hundreds of Leaf Paige's in existance. Is it desirable? Absolutely. Is it tougher to find than many mainstream post WW2 cards? Absolutely. Is it particularly scarce? Not in my opinion. At the end of the day, I think the only thing that we don't agree on is the scarcity (or lack thereof) of the Leaf Paige.

That was the ONLY point that I was trying to make, and now I'm regretting that I did.

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Posted By: JimB

Maybe the statistics discussion is done on this thread, but I was just reading this morning in the Smithsonian Baseball book about Bill Mastro's collection. He said that he bought over 2000 packs of 1965 cards and was still missing one card for a complete set. I would have to go back to the book to check which one it was.
JimB

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Posted By: Glenn

How many cards to a 1965 wax pack? 12? If so (and if the story's true) we can be virtually certain the cards were not randomly distributed in equal numbers. If he had bought only 2000 packs, with equal numbers from each series, the probability that he'd still be missing a card from the set (had they been randomly distributed in equal numbers) would be .00000000000000215. And you say he bought MORE THAN 2000 packs?

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Posted By: leon

Hey Folks,
No need for nice, respectable guys to get into a pissing match about what is allowed or "on topic" for this forum. I almost can't believe someone would say that don't know what to talk about, or what is talked about, on this forum. For anyone that wants to know you don't even have to click. It's at the top, on the front page of the board. I probably haven't done a perfect job of defining "off topic" because there's not "a" good answer. In general if Ted, or Andy, or Tbob, or Dan B, want to do an off topic it is permitted per the forum rules. If you are not a regular participant then you shouldn't start off topic threads. The idea is that we are a family and being "in" the family has certain privileges. One of those being allowed to post off topic stuff. If you have never started a vintage baseball card thread, or don't participate everyday, then please don't start off topic stuff. I don't consider 40's cards very off topic even if they are late 40's. (see forum Faq's). Every now and then a 50's baseball card set can be discussed if brought up by a regular board participant. I assure everyone I thought long, and discussed with previoius moderator(s), before I set rules in the beginning of my tenure. There are many gray areas on this board and this is one. In general it is a Pre-WWII vintage baseball card chat board....thanks again....

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

VintageChris

How about emailing me and I will try to answer all your questions
regarding this set.

T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

"Does anyone really know what time it is ?"....the title and
lyrics of the famous Chicago Transit Authority song, 1967.

Well, does anyone really READ the backs of BB cards anymore ?
Here we have the Chicago based Leaf Gum Co. card of Satchel
Paige.....have any of you read the back of it ?

The last sentence in his write-up tells us without any doubt
what year this card was marketed.....1949. And, if you bother
to read the backs of many of the 1st and 2nd (scarce) series
cards in this set, you will realize it is indeed a 1949 set.

Furthermore, if you do some homework regarding the 98 players
in this set you will realize that this set was never issued
in 1948. This is my final word on this subject.

So.....Good Night and Good Luck and may you all have a.....

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah and Season's Greetings.

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Posted By: David Vargha

I just wanted to say that I think it's really cool how the margins on Ted's posts are different from the rest of ours.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: JimB

Glenn,
I believe there were 5 to a pack because he said he has over 10,000 cards.
JimB

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I have only a few of these but they are all copyright 1949. I cannot believe that Leaf would screw up its copyright rights by either listing the cards with the wrong dates (1949 if issued in 1948) or issuing the cards before they actually were copyrighted and then copyrighting them in 1949.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

The were issued in the Spring of 1949.

They are all mislabeled by everyone as 1948-49...

but they should ONLY be labeled as a 1949 set.

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Posted By: JimB

Didn't the thread a few months ago conclude that the copyright date referred to when the photos on the cards were copyrighted, not when the cards themselves were issued?
JimB

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Not to my recollection.

I think that was a suggestion, but not proven.

The only sure thing I remember was that the cards mentioned things on the back that had not yet happened until 1949.

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Posted By: Eric Pugh

Just picked one of these up thanks to your enthusiastic responses.

Will share the scan when the card arrives.