OT - But What is Wrong With this PSA Authenticated Picture? Old time TV fans let me know

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Posted By: Richard Simon

A customer of mine wrote me about this piece.
Here is lot #75 in the current American Memorabilia catalog, complete with a COA from PSA.
What is wrong with this picture?
Old time TV Western fans should catch it easily. And it has nothing to do with John Wayne
I will wait to see if anybody on the group can pick out the problem and then I will let you know what the answer is.
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: jay behrens

a bunch of cowboys around palm trees? No John Wayne sig? Otherwise, I have no clue.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: steve k

Not a real photograph - lots of "cut and paste"

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Here is the catalog description from the American Memorabilia website -
Multi-Signed Cowboy Photo
Each bedecked in his wonderful T.V. regalia is this latter-day gathering of our Western heroes. And should a nudge of the memory be needed, these are, left-to-right, Wyatt Earp, Lucas McCain, Cheyenne Bodie, Kwai Chang Caine, Kemo Sabe, Tonto and Bat Masterson. Though John Wayne is pictured on this NM/MT 8" x 10" photo, we offer little apology for the absence of his signing. All the others, however, have penned their legal autographs - all "8-10/10". So, for those readers needing another nudge, these 'men among men' are actually Hugh O'Brien, Chuck Connors, Clint Walker, David Carradine, Clayton Moore, Michael Ansara and Gene Barry.

Authenticators
PSA/DNA

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The guess above is not correct.
Like I said, you do have to be an old time TV Western fan to know it, but if you are, this sticks out like a sore thumb.

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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

The fact that John Wayne wasn't in a TV show at the time the rest of the guys in the pic were?

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Posted By: Jay Miller

The fellow on the right isn't Gene Barry

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Bat Masterson always wore a black derby hat, not a white ten gallon hat.

I'm not obsessed with hats; I just got an Exhibit card of Barry as Masterson and he doesn't have a white ten gallon hat.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

I think the guy on the right is Jack Kelly who played Bart Maverick.

Now when the west was very young
There lived a man named Masterson
He wore a cane and derby hat
They called him Bat, Bat Masterson

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Posted By: steve k

Age groupings don't look right to me. But I guess that's not what you found, but that still could be a cut and paste photograph. I wouldn't think that PSA would be concerned about whether a photograph is technically "real" or not - just that the signatures were real.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

but I did think it was Maverick at first.

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Posted By: Jimi

To me it looks like the Lone Ranger is an old man!!! The rest are themselves in their younger years. Just a guess!

Jimi

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Posted By: Jay Miller

No-Hugh O'Brien is correct at the left as Wyatt Earp

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Posted By: warshawlaw

the shows represented were 1960s and even 1970s shows (I have the full set of Kung Fu cards...it was a 1970's show). The Clayton Moore stuff was earlier. Also, I don't think that is a live image of Wayne. He had lung cancer and was probably thin as a rail or dead by the time this image would have been made. Perhaps a wax statue?

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Another fine piece of memorabilia in an AM auction.

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Posted By: barry arnold

jay's right--that fella on the right is not Gene Barry;
can't tell who he is, maybe some weatherman.

best

barry arnold

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Excellent work by this great group.
The fellow on the right is not Gene Barry-Bat Masterson. It is Jack Kelly who played Bart Maverick, the brother of Bret.
Guess I should tell American Memorabilia that this group can do the job, when PSA cannot. They authenticated this piece without knowing that the signature did not even match the man in the picture. Would Gene Barry have signed a picture of Jack Kelly?? I think not.
KUDOS again to the authentication service that says nothing is real unless we say it is.

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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: David

That may be Michael Ansara's photo and it may be his sig for all I know but he never played Tonto, to my knowledge. He was on a show called Broken Arrow.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Right you are David, that was one I overlooked.
Jay Silverheels was Tonto.
Who proofread this catalog?
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Great point David--you are correct.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Happy face over Hopalong - happy faces weren't "invented" until the 70s.

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Posted By: scgaynor

So are you saying that the signatures are not authentic, or are they just not signed in the right place on the photo?

Scott

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Scott - the picture is Jack Kelly, yet the photo is signed Gene Barry, who is nowhere in the picture.
What do you think? Would Gene Barry have signed a picture he was not in, and signed it under a picture of Jack Kelly? I have seen many photos on ebay that had a signature of the person who was not pictured. Sloppy work by the bad guys.

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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

It is David Carradine's 1970's-cool yin-yang.

Bat Masterson or not the hat is still glaringly wrong.

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Posted By: shellyjaffe

This looks a Gregg Marino special.This something that Marino did all the time. He would sign a ball that couldn't have been signed by a player or actor because they where dead before the ball was produced. He would spell there name wrong. Frank Sinatraa ,Harbo Marx John Lenon and people never looked.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Here we have Gene Barry's autograph, when he is not in the picture. Here we have Shelly telling us that the pic was probably signed by Marino.
I am familair with Chuck Connors' signature and I did not like it on this picture and I just spoke to someone who had a private signing with him years ago, and he told me the Connors was not authentic.
So how did this pass and get put into an auction?
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: Josh K.

What does American Memorabilia have to say about this? Has anyone contacted them?

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Posted By: warshawlaw

come to think of it that one does look too "girly" for him--his signature was very angular. I remember that the dual "C" was very abrupt-looking, but I know the one I got was for real since I was shaking the Rifleman's hand when I got it.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

I have not contacted American Memorabilia about this picture. I was formerly one of their authenticators. However I did attempt to write them over the Bruce Springsteen Gold Record debacle, which I wrote about here before, and they never answered me. I wrote to them repeatedly and never got an answer. In addition, a Bruce Springsteen expert had written to them about that item, and he never got a response. So writing to them seems futile, at least on my part. If anyone cares to write them about this - auctions@americanmemorabilia.com

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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: J.mcmurry

Richard,

You need to speak louder to the folks at AM. They're having trouble hearing you over the sound of all that money they're making

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Posted By: Richard Simon

The fact of that remains to be seen.

When you go to the American Memorabilia website you are greeted with the slogan "Welcome to American Memorabilia.com, where an item's authenticity and bidder confidence comes first."
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

I have been contacted by a well known dealer, who sent me the details about a lawsuit he just started. He is suing Mastro and PSA. I have suggested that he post the details on this forum.
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Richard--Now that you've dangled the story out there what is going on? Who is suing Mastro and PSA and why?

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Jay in this case I have asked the dealer to post his story here. He did send me a copy of the lawsuit, so it is definitely ongoing and was filed recently.
If he does not post here, I will ask him for permission to post the information here. In this case, it is somewhat detailed, so I would rather the dealer post this information himself, since he has the exact first hand knowledge of the entire story and can answer the groups questions. I am sure there are going to be questions.

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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: jay behrens

If there is a lawsuit, he probably ins't going to say much of anything here. Posting the case number and other basics is probably about all we can hope for.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

I just talked to the dealer, Bill Daniels, he will be posting the lawsuit on the forum. He should have it up sometime today.

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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Wouldn't it be inappropriate if you are involved in a lawsuit to discuss it on a chatroom board? Why would anyone involved in a suit do that? Hal, what do you think?

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Posted By: Richard S. Simon

As far as I know, lawsuits are a matter of public record. I would think Bill Daniels would not make any comments about the suit, but posting it I think is not a problem.

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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.