1915 Boston Red Sox Postcard vs 1905 W601 Detroit Tigers

[bcbgcbrcb]

Since this Red Sox postcard has now become so beloved in the hobby, I thought that it would be interesting to make the comparison to this Tigers item, both portray team images as opposed to the usually more popular individual appearance. It appears that the biggest selling point of the 1915 postcard is that it includes Ruth a year before his traditional M101-5 RC. And, of course, Ruth is top 5 all-time, likely even #1. The W601 pictures Cobb two years before his 1907 Wolverine/Taylor/Dietsche postcards. Apparently, some of the most respected board members here believe that the Red Sox postcard is worth every penny of the recent nearly $200K sale in Goldin. Meanwhile, there have been no recent public sales of the W601 but previous numbers have been in the $5K-$10K range. As far as I know, Cobb is also a top 5 player, all-time. So, what is wrong with this picture? I know, the W601 is oversize and obviously not a card. However, the postcard is also larger than a traditional card, and as a postcard, is not a card either. But let’s say the postcard is close enough and we call it a card. How about the nearly $100K sale of the ‘15 Red Sox pitching staff type 1 photo in Goldin. That one is 8X10 and obviously not a card at all nor is it catalogued, same as the ‘15 Red Sox postcard is not catalogued nor part of a set. However, the W601 is catalogued and is part of an annual issue which ran for 10 years and was also used as an advertising medium for a product, the Sporting Life newspaper.

To me the W601 should be at least in the same conversation as the Red Sox postcard but $5K vs. $200K? I can tell you which looks like the bigger bargain and smarter buy to me. Anyone else?

[oldjudge]

Phil—Good topic. I agree that the Cobb postcard may be undervalued but there is no way it should be close to the Ruth postcard. First, Ruth is a top 1 player, Cobb is a top 10 player, generally ranked in the 6-10 range. Second, composites are less popular than actual team photos. Third, Ruth was loved, Cobb was hated by many. There’s a start.

[Rhotchkiss]

I started a thread about this a while back. https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=353304

I agree the Ruth beats the Cobb all day, but I also feel the price difference should be less than it is.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Sorry, missed that, Ryan. But, my comparison was to the W601 Tigers premium, notice that I said 1905 as my year of issue. I know, very confusing and most likely the ONLY ACC designation where the same identifier was used for two totally different issues. Much of the same logic applies to the '06 postcard, however. I see from your previous post that most everyone agrees that the Ruth should be worth more than the Cobb but that the Cobb is quite undervalued. More than a year later, don't think the view on the W601 Cobb has changed at all, nor has the perceived value since I don't know of any actual public sales. Doesn't really make sense to me, my best guess is maybe 1% of collectors can afford the Ruth postcard today and maybe 25% can afford the W601 Cobb. You would think with a much larger audience, that would be the one escalating in value more rapidly, but it seems to be the opposite. Thus, once again, it has become that the REALLY BIG cards can no longer be acquirable by anyone except the extremely wealthy, which might make up 1% of the collectors out there. If I saved up for the rest of my life, I likely couldn't afford to buy the Ruth postcard. That's why I try to advocate for things that are still affordable for a larger percentage of collectors but it seems with each passing month/year, more and more of the REALLY BIG cards are falling by the wayside for the vast majority of us. We all want the best and not have to settle for only what we can afford. Only 5-10 years ago, it wasn't this way. Why does it seem that those with big money to spend were controlling themselves back then and avoiding crazy escalations in prices while today, it has become the Wild, Wild West with unlimited spending. Seems to take away some of the allure of the hobby to me. Of course, that is coming from the perspective of someone who falls into the latter category.

[calvindog]

Phil, owning both (plus the W601 Tigers PC), I can tell you that the W601 Premium is not in the same ballpark as the 1915 Red Sox PC for the reason you stated -- it's not a card. It's also not in the same ballpark as the W601 Tigers PC for that same reason. As for "smarter" buy, the Ruth team PC is a card, and has Ruth's first major league image on it. There's no player who is more important to collectors than Ruth. To compare the 1915 Red Sox PC to the 1905 W601 Tigers Premium is like comparing apples to a fire hydrant. Not even on the same planet.

The better comparison would be the 1915 Red Sox PC to the W601 Tigers PC and for the reasons described above, I'd agree that the Tigers PC featuring Cobb's first image is undervalued. But there's no way it will ever be worth what the 1915 Red Sox PC is worth -- Cobb does not compare to Ruth in the eyes of collectors.

To me, the argument that makes more sense is why the 1915 Red Sox PC is worth so much less than the 1916 M101-5 Ruth cards, especially when you consider the PC is a year earlier and has a way lower population. But as Jay pointed out, the PC doesn't feature Ruth alone, and well, there you have it.

I also lament prices going up but then again, I also decry young people stepping on my lawn. That's how the world works.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thanks, Jeff. Finally, someone has made a point that I can grasp and latch on to. Us long-time COLLECTORS controlled our spending just fine for many years but today’s post-COVID world has brought in countless individuals primarily looking to make a buck (or a million) and have brought the irresponsible spending into the hobby. Thus, those with the financial resources to do it, are forced to up their ante in order to keep collecting what they like, just costs a lot more for everything. In the meantime, the rest of us have to sit back and watch from afar and can only dream about acquiring a really big card like the ‘15 Ruth. 10 years ago that was a $10K or so card before the escalation started around 2015, much earlier than just about anything else. I guess at that time, the card had been severely undervalued. Just about the same time that the Gehrig exhibit exploded. Since then, the Gehrig has tailed off somewhat while the Ruth continues to escalate. Based on the “card” theory, how does the Gehrig exhibit become $100K in the first place, it’s basically a postcard.

[mrreality68]

Some Great points and the gap should be there but it should be less
But another factor is supply/demand

The early ruth cards are not very many and do not have alot of quantity

Cobb seems to have a ton of different Cards, Postcards, etc and many of them have a ton of quantity

So even though there are limited quantities of some cards there is so many alternates for collectors/investors to choose from for Cobb vs the Ruth

[calvindog]

There’s actually much fewer examples of the 1906 Tigers W601 PC which is the “true” Cobb rookie than the 1915 Red Sox PCs with Ruth.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by calvindog

There’s actually much fewer examples of the 1906 Tigers W601 PC which is the “true” Cobb rookie than the 1915 Red Sox PCs with Ruth.

Jeff
I 100% agree and if I stated my point wrong I appologize
my point was there are so many different type of early Cobb Cards, Postcards, and supplements etc. vs the number of types of early Ruth Card, Postcards etc
That it is easy to get something early Cobb item.

There are very few early 1915 or 1916 or even 1917 Ruth Cards vs all the Early
1905-1909 Cobb Items
Think of how many items are Called a "Cobb Rookie Card" vs the number of items called the "Ruth Rookie Card"

[oldjudge]

Phil--the market is what the market is. We are all priced out of some cards we might like. Appreciate what you can buy and stop whining about what you can't. The constitution guarantees a lot of things, but baseball cards is not one of them.

[Bicem]

simple short answer that others have already mentioned...

1905 w601 is a premium vs 1915 Red Sox PC is a postcard (which is much closer to a traditional baseball card and thus more in demand)

A better comparison for the w601 might be this 1915 Red Sox Premium which I bought on ebay for $300 years ago

[bcbgcbrcb]

Disagree. W601 is from a catalogued set with a print run of 10 years like the W600 Wagner that also sold for a ridiculous price. Both were forms of advertising for their maker, Sporting Life. Both of those ‘15 Red Sox team items are not catalogued, not part of any set and not advertising vehicles. The lack of all three of those things should have a negative effect on value, but apparently it does not.

Would love to see some support from others who cannot afford to play in this space as currently construed. Or is everyone else loaded and it’s just me that can’t afford any of this? Then I should just go back and find another hobby if this one doesn’t work for me any longer and when everyone else is fine with things being the way they are.

[Bicem]

Honestly you'll just drive yourself crazy trying to make logical sense of prices in an illogical hobby.

I actually think the Red Sox postcard is overvalued too, it's essentially a small type 3 photo on postcard stock instead of photo paper. That said, I still think it only continues to rise in value as collectors love early Ruth. If you don't already own one and can't spend 6 figures on one, then you'll never own one.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Disagree. W601 is from a catalogued set with a print run of 10 years like the W600 Wagner that also sold for a ridiculous price. Both were forms of advertising for their maker, Sporting Life. Both of those ‘15 Red Sox team items are not catalogued, not part of any set and not advertising vehicles. The lack of all three of those things should have a negative effect on value, but apparentlye it does not.

Would love to see some support from others who cannot afford to play in this space as currently construed. Or is everyone else loaded and it’s just me that can’t afford any of this? Then I should just go back and find another hobby if this one doesn’t work for me any longer and when everyone else is fine with things being the way they are.

Phil—Again, the market is the market. If you are not “fine” with the way things are how do you propose that things be changed? If you find that being priced out of some cards is overly frustrating for you perhaps you should find another niche in the hobby where prices are lower. I collect WNBA cards and you can easily operate in that space on a limited budget. How about non-sports? The joy is in the chase; sometimes I think it is almost immaterial what you are chasing.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Would love to see some support from others who cannot afford to play in this space as currently construed. Or is everyone else loaded and it’s just me that can’t afford any of this? Then I should just go back and find another hobby if this one doesn’t work for me any longer and when everyone else is fine with things being the way they are.

-
I can't afford to play in this space, I love the Ruth postcard but will never own one and am 100% okay with that, would probably be uncomfortable owning a card worth $200K. I'm completely happy with my 21 Exhibits Ruth that I "overpaid" for 5 years ago.

I'm a working class collector who is very fortunate to have some resources to participate in this great hobby of ours. I'm grateful to have bought what I've bought and sold what I've sold. For me, to participate in this hobby at a level that is satisfying takes sacrifice. I recently completed a 7 card E94 color run that took me 5 years to finish, during that process I sold a vintage motorcycle that I loved in order to finance part of the project. Was happy to do it to reach my goal.
I have a back run that I'm working on that I may never finish due to scarcity of cards, so it sits there at 10/15, the fun part is is the anticipation that one of the cards I need will pop up when its ready to become part of my run, until then I'll just save my pennies until it does.

For me the trick is to choose card collecting goals that are challenging, within my budget range (which I always blow), that satisfies my collecting bug, and are attainable at the some point in time. The goal has to be fun and has to impress me, nobody else. I also set a dozen goals since some will sit for a very long time.

I have cards that have passed me by and become too expensive that I would really love to acquire but the money is not in my budget, I just let that stuff go and remind myself how lucky I am to have what I have. I keep my goals very specific to avoid spending money on cards that I "kinda" like, only to regret it later when the card I really want pops up at the AH. I keep my collection to 500 cards or less and that helps with acquiring too much "clutter".

Long story short, I'm just grateful to have the cards I currently posses, the possibility to add a few more, and the friendships I've made along the way. If it stops being fun/rewarding I'll be the first to pack it all up and ship them off to the AH, keeping a few for good memories.
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[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Bicem

... A better comparison for the w601 might be this 1915 Red Sox Premium which I bought on ebay for $300 years ago

Or this m113 poster

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Would love to see some support from others who cannot afford to play in this space as currently construed. Or is everyone else loaded and it’s just me that can’t afford any of this? Then I should just go back and find another hobby if this one doesn’t work for me any longer and when everyone else is fine with things being the way they are.

Phil, I have always considered myself as playing in a cheaper space than where you play, based on some of the amazing items I've seen of yours over the years.

Most of the stuff I have of any "real" value was / is accidental due to my pack rat nature and eclectic tastes.

This hobby is way big enough for any budget, both small and large, always has been and always will be.

Certainly the current "opinions rule" slab mentality complicates things, but so did the " chase card" craze perfected by Upper Deck in the late 1980s.

How / why do you think I jumped so deep into Baseball Magazine posters? Because they were stupid cheap when compared to most items of similar age.

Too bad I didn't jump into t206 cards when the Wagner was under $1k, but oh well, dumb me for thinking the 57 Topps set is more attractive.

[calvindog]

Phil, well-said. There’s always someone richer, better-looking or with a better card collection than all of us.

[aelefson]

There are plenty of decent memorabilia options that are still affordable. I have snapshots of Ruth, a scorecard with him on the cover (33 all star game), a couple of store model bats, and other oddball items. All of those were significantly cheaper than his cards from the same era.

I thought 33 Goudey Ruth cards were overpriced 20 years ago when they were 500 or so for a decent one (don't get me started on what they go for now). I have had much greater pleasure collecting memorabilia compared to cards.

If you are looking to make money in memorabilia, it is usually more about buying it at a good price than buying it at retail and hoping it increases in the future. Memorabilia also has a bit of a learning curve, especially if you are buying in non traditional venues (I have built most of my collection through shopping at antique stores and shows).

Regarding the original topic, I agree with most of the other posters about Ruth's popularity. To me, both pieces being discussed would be great to own but I am fine with my Cobb snapshot with teammates in street clothes from the Marty McIntyre album that I paid 80.00 for. For Ruth, I am happy to own the 1915 Spalding guide that has his picture with Baltimore (showing the 1914 team) that I paid 40.00 for.

Alan

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Phil, well-said. There’s always someone richer, better-looking or with a better card collection than all of us.

Richer, absolutely. Better card collection, no question. Better looking? I beg to differ. 🤣

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Richer, absolutely. Better card collection, no question. Better looking? I beg to differ. 🤣

You'll get better looking in my eyes if you sell me that Everybody's Cobb. )))

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I started a thread about this a while back. https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=353304

I agree the Ruth beats the Cobb all day, but I also feel the price difference should be less than it is.

Phil, I think the most likely reasons are stated in the other thread that Ryan pointed out, namely, there are other "rookie" cards for Cobb that have much better eye appeal that collectors prefer with comparable postmark dates, and for Ruth, there are hardly any Red Sox cards available for him, so even a third year card like a 1918 Boston Store is worth over 100K.

Personally, I'm waiting for my faded c1916 postcard (that I paid ~$3500 in 2019) where you can barely see Ruth to hit six figures sometimes. It's even rarer than the W601! lol.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Disagree. W601 is from a catalogued set with a print run of 10 years like the W600 Wagner that also sold for a ridiculous price. Both were forms of advertising for their maker, Sporting Life. Both of those ‘15 Red Sox team items are not catalogued, not part of any set and not advertising vehicles. The lack of all three of those things should have a negative effect on value, but apparently it does not.

Would love to see some support from others who cannot afford to play in this space as currently construed. Or is everyone else loaded and it’s just me that can’t afford any of this? Then I should just go back and find another hobby if this one doesn’t work for me any longer and when everyone else is fine with things being the way they are.

I support what you are saying, Phil, but the market is what it is. I feel fortunate to have bought some cards before the explosion and am reluctant to chase current pricing even if i could. I agree that the 1905 Cobb is undervalued and a rookie card much like the 1915 Ruth. I dont see a team postcard as more “card-like” than a premium, a view i have stated many times on this board. That does seem to be how the market is currently pricing some things, but it’s not consistent and can change. I wouldnt say it’s likely but it could.

In the meantime, take advantage of it and stop worrying about the Ruth 1915 price and buy more Cobbs when they come up for sale. Someday if they move a bunch you could sell them and buy the Ruth.

I bought a W601 tigers in Heritage last year, thought it was cheap. Would buy more of these kinds of items when they come up. I like these premiums. There is also a LOT less risk in these items at these prices.

Actually, the biggest difference in value is not this arbitrary “what is a card stuff”, which i dont buy and is negated by your points about photos ( I don’t get the big premiums for these myself, not a buyer) being very expensive and not cards at all. The biggest difference is simply does PSA grade them.if PSA graded the W601 (or the M101-1 or NCP “cards”), then they would soar in value in my opinion. Which is the way it works today. That can change too. See what it did for the M101-2’s, which were never that pricey until PSA started grading them. I bought this M101-2 Wagner for not much of a fuss about 15 years ago (the picture doesnt do it justice, it’s in great condition).

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by glchen

Phil, I think the most likely reasons are stated in the other thread that Ryan pointed out, namely, there are other "rookie" cards for Cobb that have much better eye appeal that collectors prefer with comparable postmark dates, and for Ruth, there are hardly any Red Sox cards available for him, so even a third year card like a 1918 Boston Store is worth over 100K.

Personally, I'm waiting for my faded c1916 postcard (that I paid ~$3500 in 2019) where you can barely see Ruth to hit six figures sometimes. It's even rarer than the W601! lol.

Cool Piece Gary
IF you give up on it let me know.