Does PSA give favoritism to certain dealers/customers?

[mannequin1]

Does PSA give favoritism to certain dealers/customers or on very rare high grade cards?

[Wanaselja]

Yes.

Vintage Card Curator on YouTube has done some great videos on this. The Rickey Henderson and Eddie Murray RC’s come to mind.

[ClementeFanOh]

Yep. The notion began with their first graded card.

Trent King

[Peter_Spaeth]

All submitters are equal.


Some are more equal than others.

aka. my rule of Animal Farm grading

[raulus]

How do I get on the list to be more equal?

[bcbgcbrcb]

In a word, YES. How about the other TPG’s?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

In a word, YES. How about the other TPG’s?

Some members here like to pretend their grader of choice does not participate in favoritism but it is clear it happens at Beckett and SGC too. PSA is far and away the most obvious offender and been doing it longer than anyone despite multiple changes at the management level. So far, and to their credit, CGC appears to have not tossed their hat in that ring.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Some members here like to pretend their grader of choice does not participate in favoritism but it is clear it happens at Beckett and SGC too. PSA is far and away the most obvious offender and been doing it longer than anyone despite multiple changes at the management level. So far, and to their credit, CGC appears to have not tossed their hat in that ring.

Regarding Beckett, see the immortal "Eagle Eye" Joe thread on Blowout. That forum at its finest.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297069

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by raulus

How do I get on the list to be more equal?

Talk is cheap, but money talks.

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Regarding Beckett, see the immortal "Eagle Eye" Joe thread on Blowout. That forum at its finest.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297069

An all-timer.

[Johnny630]

How is one to know I would say it’s very anecdotal… I think it’s more of the roll of the dice. I often wondered if auction houses received lower rates for grading. I believe they probably do…

[parkplace33]

100 percent. I know of guys who submitted through major auction houses. I have seen some gift grades in this process.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

How is one to know I would say it’s very anecdotal… I think it’s more of the roll of the dice. I often wondered if auction houses received lower rates for grading. I believe they probably do…

In a world where the only thing that matters is the number on the slab........ there are going to be lots of opportunities for certain individuals/entities to "coerce" a better number out of a grading company than the average schmoe could walk away with..............

This one has been hashed and rehashed only about a gazillion times over many years and yea there are just way to many examples of it happening for it to NOT be happening.

[luciobar1980]

In theory, no. In practice, probably. Which is gross.

[bnorth]

Absolutely not in any way shape or form, just another urban myth. Seriously they are way too inconsistent to worry about favoritism. Who hasn't had cards that you complained about being under graded and cards seriously over graded that you sold because it deserved the grade? It is almost as silly as the raised the bar and they are now grading 2 grades below a couple years ago. LOL, I have been hearing that one for decades and if true a 3 would be the highest grade they gave out by now. I know I can easily cherry pick cards from any era that are over and under graded just like many others are doing.

[perezfan]

I'll relay a recent experience to this effect, and sorry up front for the lack of specifics, as I prefer not to identify the AH...

I recently broke a somewhat scarce card out of a PSA 5 Holder. I wanted it in the SGC "Tux" to display it and show it off better. So I submitted it to SGC, where it received a grade of "A". I knew this was BS, so I cracked it out and decided to try an experiment....

I sent the newly cracked raw card to a well-known auction who heavily features PSA-graded cards in every catalogue. I can't bring myself to send anything to PSA, so left it up to the Auction House to get it graded and put it in their auction.

Sure enough, it came back a "7" this time around. So it went from PSA "5" to SGC "A" to PSA "7" (when the prominent Auction House submitted it). This entire debacle aged me, but worked out okay financially (even though I'd rather have kept the card). Mostly though, it demonstrates the following....

Either the prominent AH gets preferential treatment from PSA

or

The issued grades are completely meaningless and random, depending on the grader of the day.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I'll relay a recent experience to this effect, and sorry up front for the lack of specifics, as I prefer not to identify the AH...

I recently broke a somewhat scarce card out of a PSA 5 Holder. I wanted it in the SGC "Tux" to display it and show it off better. So I submitted it to SGC, where it received a grade of "A". I knew this was BS, so I cracked it out and decided to try an experiment....

I sent the newly cracked raw card to a well-known auction who heavily features PSA-graded cards in every catalogue. I can't bring myself to send anything to PSA, so left it up to the Auction House to get it graded and put it in their auction.

Sure enough, it came back a "7" this time around. So it went from PSA "5" to SGC "A" to PSA "7" (when the prominent Auction House submitted it). This entire debacle aged me, but worked out okay financially (even though I'd rather have kept the card). Mostly though, it demonstrates the following....

Either the prominent AH gets preferential treatment from PSA

or

The issued grades are completely meaningless and random, depending on the grader of the day.

Bingo. Again, if you have raw cards and want to get graded and sell, pick an AH an submit through them. You will be pleased, believe me.

[Ima Pseudonym]

I was recently talking to a friend who was getting ready to submit a whole bunch of T206-era cards for grading. He was saying that he should have them back in a couple of weeks

Being in the middle of waiting for my own submission to be graded, I told him that their lead times had been moved out to about 25-30 business days.

He told me that he was submitting through one of his other friends who always gets them back in a week or two, regardless of the stated lead time.

We'll see if he was speaking the truth, or if he was just blowing smoke, but I told him, "wow, that sounds like the kind of preferential treatment that the grading companies swear doesn't exist".

I guess I'll know in a couple of weeks if it's true.

[Ima Pseudonym]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Sure enough, it came back a "7" this time around. So it went from PSA "5" to SGC "A" to PSA "7" (when the prominent Auction House submitted it). This entire debacle aged me, but worked out okay financially (even though I'd rather have kept the card).

Out of curiosity... are you allowed to change your mind? If you see that the card came back a 7, are you allowed to contact the AH and say, "you know what, I changed my mind... I just can't bear to part with that card after all. It belonged to my dad and I'm feeling really horrible about selling it"

I mean, they'd obviously charge you for the cost of grading and shipping, but can you rescind your agreement to sell through their auction?

[Ima Pseudonym]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Absolutely not in any way shape or form, just another urban myth. Seriously they are way too inconsistent to worry about favoritism. Who hasn't had cards that you complained about being under graded and cards seriously over graded that you sold because it deserved the grade? It is almost as silly as the raised the bar and they are now grading 2 grades below a couple years ago. LOL, I have been hearing that one for decades and if true a 3 would be the highest grade they gave out by now. I know I can easily cherry pick cards from any era that are over and under graded just like many others are doing.

It's absolutely not an urban myth. The evidence is right in PSA's own data, where there are numerous examples where large blocks of cards being submitted by a single seller are all miraculously given perfect grades.

When a single submitter does better/gets luckier than another single submitter, an argument can be made that he just has a better eye for this thing, or he has a better rabbit's foot in his pocket. But when a single submitter does better than the rest of the world combined -- by a factor of 1000 -- then that amounts to statistically provable fraud.

It's not that the single submitter has a great eye... it's that he miraculously comes in contact with more perfect cards than the rest of the world *combined*; and that's just not logical, reasonable, or possible.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ima Pseudonym

It's absolutely not an urban myth. The evidence is right in PSA's own data, where there are numerous examples where large blocks of cards being submitted by a single seller are all miraculously given perfect grades.

When a single submitter does better/gets luckier than another single submitter, an argument can be made that he just has a better eye for this thing, or he has a better rabbit's foot in his pocket. But when a single submitter does better than the rest of the world combined -- by a factor of 1000 -- then that amounts to statistically provable fraud.

It's not that the single submitter has a great eye... it's that he miraculously comes in contact with more perfect cards than the rest of the world *combined*; and that's just not logical, reasonable, or possible.

To be fair, part of that may be the use of the minimum grade -- the cards that don't qualify may not get a cert. number.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To be fair, part of that may be the use of the minimum grade -- the cards that don't qualify may not get a cert. number.

I’m pretty sure they still get assigned a cert during the grading process. The cert just doesn’t show up in the database because it never gets activated. So you would have some gaps in the certs if you tried to check out a bunch of certs all in a row, if some of them did not meet the min grade specified.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I’m pretty sure they still get assigned a cert during the grading process. The cert just doesn’t show up in the database because it never gets activated. So you would have some gaps in the certs if you tried to check out a bunch of certs all in a row, if some of them did not meet the min grade specified.

The 4SCs of the world seem to get more than their share of 10s (to put it mildly), but it isn't every single card.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Yep. The notion began with their first graded card.

Trent King

Every thread needs a card

[Hankphenom]

I would hope the TPGs have a "blind" system in place whereby the graders have no other information other than the card in front of them. I might be dreaming, but it would crazy for it to be any other way, both from an ethical and a business standpoint, it seems to me.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I would hope the TPGs have a "blind" system in place whereby the graders have no other information other than the card in front of them. I might be dreaming, but it would crazy for it to be any other way, both from an ethical and a business standpoint, it seems to me.

Well they that is the myth that was spun since day 1...that grading is anonymous. Not even close from what I have been told by people who are more involved in the hobby than I am and for much longer. The other myth is that 3 graders see each card. Maybe a T206 Wagner has 3 sets of eyes but a 1968 Topps Drysdale has at best one full sets of eyes for 10 seconds.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Well they that is the myth that was spun since day 1...that grading is anonymous. Not even close from what I have been told by people who are more involved in the hobby than I am and for much longer. The other myth is that 3 graders see each card. Maybe a T206 Wagner has 3 sets of eyes but a 1968 Topps Drysdale has at best one full sets of eyes for 10 seconds.

I've always thought there could be merit in the common complaint that they don't do a great job at what they do, i.e., inexperienced, overworked graders and the like. I don't think KFC makes very good fried chicken, either, but they're still the biggest, right? But I do have a hard time seeing what would be the advantage, especially of PSA, the proverbial 800-lb gorilla in the hobby, in overgrading even for the biggest clients. Seems to me they would just have too much to lose if that was ever proven to be the case, which I don't think has happened yet, has it? And with the volume they handle, I don't know how they could make that kind of bias work without gumming up the process and creating even more delays in an organization that is already constantly "in the weeds," as we say in the bar business when you just can't keep up. I'd like to have more than hearsay to go by for such a serious accusation.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I've always thought there could be merit in the common complaint that they don't do a great job at what they do, i.e., inexperienced, overworked graders and the like. I don't think KFC makes very good fried chicken, either, but they're still the biggest, right? But I do have a hard time seeing what would be the advantage, especially of PSA, the proverbial 800-lb gorilla in the hobby, in overgrading even for the biggest clients. Seems to me they would just have too much to lose if that was ever proven to be the case, which I don't think has happened yet, has it? And with the volume they handle, I don't know how they could make that kind of bias work without gumming up the process and creating even more delays in an organization that is already constantly "in the weeds," as we say in the bar business when you just can't keep up. I'd like to have more than hearsay to go by for such a serious accusation.

I was simply speaking to the concern you had about anonymity not what PSA does with the transparency of that anonymity. PSA is giving an opinion and I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to prove their opinion is or that process is fraudulent absent people on the inside testifying. Whenever this topic is brought up you have people on this forum who post their observations that certain companies seemed to get more favorable results. Maybe it is nothing more than if a card is between a 7 and an 8 they give the favored submitter the 8 while the rest of us would get the 7?

I don't think it is uncommon in the world today that a large client would get better service than a smaller client.