Some things I found

[Bdt1981]

Multiple things found check it out.

[Mark17]

The first page is a scoresheet showing Brooklyn's half of the famous playoff Game 3 of 1951, when Bobby Thomson won the pennant for the Giants with his home run.

The second page looks like the Hillerich and Bradsby (Louisville Slugger) bat ordering records for Roberto Clemente from the dates specified, 1971-72. These bat ordering records appear to match Clemente's orders as documented by Vince Malta in his book.

The Aaron contract has information indicating his first bat order was 35", 33 oz. D89. This info matches what's documented in Vince's book.

So, that's what those 3 things are. I cannot say if they are genuine, but I see no red flags as the info that can be verified checks out.

[Lucas00]

All Garbage, just like the cards.

Nothing is real. You either bought the storage unit of somebody who got scammed, or of somebody who was doing the scamming.

You didn't strike it rich. You have fire starting material.

Just because it's funny I looked into the Hank Aaron LS contract. The real one is at the Hank Aaron Childhood Home and Museum.

I'm sure the others can be found just as easily. And funnily enough even these forgeries (the first at least) have the little modern MLB text on them.

These seriously do need burned so nobody else does what you are doing. It's to the point where plausibility no longer works, too many crazy expensive and unique items are fake. The notion of "well maybe one thing is real" (not saying you said that, but I bet you are thinking it) is at the point of near impossible odds and I mean so near that I will just say impossible. Its like trying to find a gold coin in a toy treasure chest full of plastic coins.

Maybe the autos are good or there's some 80s junk at the very best.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

The notion of "well maybe one thing is real" (not saying you said that, but I bet you are thinking it) is at the point of near impossible odds and I mean so near that I will just say impossible. Its like trying to find a gold coin in a toy treasure chest full of plastic coins.

Maybe the autos are good or there's some 80s junk at the very best.

A lot of collectors have a mixture of genuine and fake stuff. For example, I have a number of genuine game used flannels, and I also have Mitchell & Ness "fakes" of 1968 Detroit Denny McLain and 1966 Baltimore Brooks Robinson. I recently acquired a GU Tony Horton bat, and then got a custom (fake) 1967 Topps card to display with it. I also have a T205 reprint set, and a few modern copies of 1960s wire photos.

There have been auctions at the Hillerich & Bradsby factory, and I thought it might be possible some of their genuine items, like the Clemente bat order page and the Aaron contract, might have been sold by the company at some point, much like the Topps vault auctions/sales.

I agree, overall, this guy's posts are mostly bogus, with that multi-million dollar (if genuine) Wagner casually included in the pictures. But I disagree that a few genuine items couldn't exist along with the junk. I'm just not willing, based on bad scans, to positively dismiss it all. Other people, with more knowledge than me, can make that assertion if they want.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by Mark17

A lot of collectors have a mixture of genuine and fake stuff. For example, I have a number of genuine game used flannels, and I also have Mitchell & Ness "fakes" of 1968 Detroit Denny McLain and 1966 Baltimore Brooks Robinson. I recently acquired a GU Tony Horton bat, and then got a custom (fake) 1967 Topps card to display with it. I also have a T205 reprint set, and a few modern copies of 1960s wire photos.

There have been auctions at the Hillerich & Bradsby factory, and I thought it might be possible some of their genuine items, like the Clemente bat order page and the Aaron contract, might have been sold by the company at some point, much like the Topps vault auctions/sales.

I agree, overall, this guy's posts are mostly bogus, with that multi-million dollar (if genuine) Wagner casually included in the pictures. But I disagree that a few genuine items couldn't exist along with the junk. I'm just not willing, based on bad scans, to positively dismiss it all. Other people, with more knowledge than me, can make that assertion if they want.

I haven't seen anything real yet and the fakes I have seen are deceptive fakes. That is a really horrible combo for finding legitimate grail items. I've never heard of an amazing find amidst forgeries in this hobby. That's why I said the odds are so close to impossible that I call it impossible. But I guess like almost anything, there's however many hundred zeros before a 1 in .01% that can turn up a miracle.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

I haven't seen anything real yet and the fakes I have seen are deceptive fakes. That is a really horrible combo for finding legitimate grail items. I've never heard of an amazing find amidst forgeries in this hobby. That's why I said the odds are so close to impossible that I call it impossible. But I guess like almost anything, there's however many hundred zeros before a 1 in .01% that can turn up a miracle.

I agree with you; I'm just not comfortable being the guy to say it.

[Brent G.]

So was this guy banned after posting this? Don't think I've seen that label of shame during my time here.

[NiceDocter]

But a strategy he was trying to use IMO is getting enough posts over time to look legit for a future fake item. We all know to watch out when someone has only 1 or 2 posts but this guy was getting close to 30….. glad Leon pulled the plug on him!

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I agree with you; I'm just not comfortable being the guy to say it.

"All that it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." ...Blake

Guy comes here posts some fakes with a dash of hope.. The hope is nobody shoots him down and he can point to Net54 and say "Hey these guys are experts, they cant tell so maby its worth while taking a chance on these extrextremly valuable cards..

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

"All that it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." ...Blake

Guy comes here posts some fakes with a dash of hope.. The hope is nobody shoots him down and he can point to Net54 and say "Hey these guys are experts, they cant tell so maby its worth while taking a chance on these extrextremly valuable cards..

I think it's unfair to apply that quote about doing nothing to me. In this guy's other thread, I questioned how he called the T3s "big cards" after claiming to have done research. To me, that was a big red flag because it indicates deceit. The Wagner was obviously fake. But I wasn't comfortable dismissing the Clemente bat order page because I'm not knowledgeable about that.

If I was too cautious to positively, unequivocally dismiss things I cannot evaluate with confidence, so be it.

[LEHR]

IMO all the new guys coming here posting about "something they just found" or "question about something I just bought" and acting uneducated about the item are just fishing for a behind the scenes PM offer to buy.
Otherwise, what's the point of these posts? I don't think any of these guys are really that naive as to what they have.

[NiceDocter]

I believe a lot of these scammers come in here to see what the experts see as wrong with their fakes so they can make better ones next time. That’s why it’s better not to be too specific when calling them out IMO

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by Mark17

The first page is a scoresheet showing Brooklyn's half of the famous playoff Game 3 of 1951, when Bobby Thomson won the pennant for the Giants with his home run.

The second page looks like the Hillerich and Bradsby (Louisville Slugger) bat ordering records for Roberto Clemente from the dates specified, 1971-72. These bat ordering records appear to match Clemente's orders as documented by Vince Malta in his book.

The Aaron contract has information indicating his first bat order was 35", 33 oz. D89. This info matches what's documented in Vince's book.

So, that's what those 3 things are. I cannot say if they are genuine, but I see no red flags as the info that can be verified checks out.

This is the very first post to this scammers thread. You end your post saying

" So, that's what those 3 things are. I cannot say if they
are genuine, but I see no red flags as the info that can be
verified checks out."

Now you want to back track and say based on fuzzy Yada Yada I didn't feel comfortable saying they were fake. But you felt comfortable saying that what YOU VERIFIED CHECKS OUT.
And what I am saying is We ( me included) need to be careful. Especially when these items are so easily tracked and researched.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

This is the very first post to this scammers thread. You end your post saying

" So, that's what those 3 things are. I cannot say if they
are genuine, but I see no red flags as the info that can be
verified checks out."

Now you want to back track and say based on fuzzy Yada Yada I didn't feel comfortable saying they were fake. But you felt comfortable saying that what YOU VERIFIED CHECKS OUT.
And what I am saying is We ( me included) need to be careful. Especially when these items are so easily tracked and researched.

In this guy's other thread, with the fuzzy pictures of T206 and "big cards" (T3), there were people commenting they thought his stuff might be real. People were offering to meet with him to verify. Do you want to go back to that thread and call those people out for enabling a scammer to rip people off?

What I said, that you've quoted above, quite clearly (to people who can comprehend simple things) says the INFO (that means INFORMATION) does check out. I pulled out Malta's book and compared to Clemente's bat ordering records. I then said I can't say if they are genuine. That is not an endorsement by any stretch of your imagination. Get a GU bat authenticated by John Taube that has a bad autograph on it and John will authenticate the bat, and then say he offers no opinion on the auitograph. In your mind, does that mean he's helping someone pass a bad autograph?

New people pop up on this site all the time. On this guy's other thread, there were comments about how restrained we were in not immediately ripping him. Even Leon commented on the board's general restraint. My comment on that board was:

Originally Posted by Mark17

Just curious, how is it you know that the small cards are referred to as T206, but are unaware what the big cards are called? They were all issued during the same 3-year period.

You say you've been researching them, but still don't know what the "big cards" are?

[Mark17 shows a bit less restraint than others...]

But, if you want to single me out for not being quick enough to jump on this guy, so be it. Maybe whenever someone new comes on here, the rest of us should all step aside and let you render your immediate and precise evaluation on all things.

And by the way, if someone buys these fakes based on somebody on this board saying they can't verify their authenticity, that would be on them.

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by Mark17

In this guy's other thread, with the fuzzy pictures of T206 and "big cards" (T3), there were people commenting they thought his stuff might be real. People were offering to meet with him to verify. Do you want to go back to that thread and call those people out for enabling a scammer to rip people off?





And by the way, if someone buys these fakes based on somebody on this board saying they can't verify their authenticity, that would be on them.

But you go beyond saying they cannot be verified. YOU say that based on the info ( yes I understand this to mean information) THEY CHECK OUT. To your credit you point out that the information you quote is one source, Maltas book. A very limited amount of information. But a very quick search of the internet of his items verifies that they are not real. But you didn't do that. So while your definition of information is common, it is also quite limited.

Did you read the thread on the main board by this same scammer? Because you say I didn't apply the same criticism to that thread. But I did. Rather than post to the scammer what a lovely Jackie Robinson retirement letter you have. I spent 7 seconds and verified it was not real. I also pointed out that even with fuzzy photos that modern typset on the back of a T206 is the most common way folks who reproduce old cards let everyone know they are Reprints!

Sorry it's just my opinion that scammers need to be called out quickly and definitively. I am far from the only person on this board able to accomplish this. Just randomly came across the thread. Spent a little time researching (7 seconds for the memorabilia less for the T206's) and took the time to call scammer out.

In your post you referance the practice of Game used authenticators who often state they offer no opinion on weather Signatures are real or not. That is very...very differant from saying "according to the info they check out". Which is probably why they don't say that.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

But you go beyond saying they cannot be verified. YOU say that based on the info ( yes I understand this to mean information) THEY CHECK OUT. To your credit you point out that the information you quote is one source, Maltas book. A very limited amount of information. But a very quick search of the internet of his items verifies that they are not real. But you didn't do that. So while your definition of information is common, it is also quite limited.

Did you read the thread on the main board by this same scammer? Because you say I didn't apply the same criticism to that thread. But I did. Rather than post to the scammer what a lovely Jackie Robinson retirement letter you have. I spent 7 seconds and verified it was not real. I also pointed out that even with fuzzy photos that modern typset on the back of a T206 is the most common way folks who reproduce old cards let everyone know they are Reprints!

Sorry it's just my opinion that scammers need to be called out quickly and definitively. I am far from the only person on this board able to accomplish this. Just randomly came across the thread. Spent a little time researching (7 seconds for the memorabilia less for the T206's) and took the time to call scammer out.

In your post you referance the practice of Game used authenticators who often state they offer no opinion on weather Signatures are real or not. That is very...very differant from saying "according to the info they check out". Which is probably why they don't say that.

You are far superior to me.