CGC Grading at the National

[rand1com]

CGC is doing what I said SGC should do. No membership required for these fees but members get 10% to 20% discount on them depending on type membership.

$20 Economy Value to $1000. Ready by end of show.
$55 Express Value to $10,000. Ready 24 hours.
$155 Walk through Unlimited Value. How about a T206 Wagner for $155? Ready 3 hours.

I'm betting they will be covered up!!!

[Johnny630]

How do CSG Vintage Cards Sell in Same Grade Relative to SGC and PSA ? Are they on par or close ? I rarely see CSG Pre War and Post War Cards for sale at shows. Usually only Pokémon Cards or Modern...idk

I’m still shocked SGC hasn’t come out with something yet regarding their status at the National....hopefully Monday ��

[parkplace33]

Glad to see CSG is coming out with a special at the National.

And yes, agree that SGC has fumbled the football with this National. One week to go, no news, no update. Sad!

[rand1com]

CGC is about like SGC. I think they now grade more cards than SGC but a lot might be modern. They will not match PSA on pricing for vintage cards but neither does SGC or Beckett.

They are trying to grow their business and I expect this will help them.

They graded on site last year as well but I don't remember if their pricing was this sharp.

I probably would stick with cards under a grand for $20 a the show. That is $130 less than PSA's lowest price.

They have graded at least one 1952 Topps Mantle that was in a major auction last year. I cannot remember what the grade was or what it sold for although a google search will likely turn it up.

[Chicken man]

Csg ...is nothing like SGC ... also if you price your same grade vintage super star SGC card at what psa sell for it will sell at that price . SGC is the most respected amongst vintage collectors . Jmho

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[rand1com]

Respectfully disagree that SGC will sell for the same price on a regular basis with PSA for any card in the same grade.

Are there exceptions on a rare occasion, of course, but not with any regularity.

Why do you think collectors will wait for months for PSA to grade cards or either pay exorbitant prices for grading to get cards back quickly when SGC returns them in a week on a regular basis at a value price point?

Value is the most important reason along with the fact that they have a registry.

Can't necessarily argue with your point of the value of CGC versus SGC because VCP does not list CGC pricing so there is no way to easily find comparable sales.

My opinion is that they would be close but I don't have data to back that claim up so I will give you that one.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Respectfully disagree that SGC will sell for the same price on a regular basis with PSA for any card in the same grade.

Are there exceptions on a rare occasion, of course, but not with any regularity.

Why do you think collectors will wait for months for PSA to grade cards or either pay exorbitant prices for grading to get cards back quickly when SGC returns them in a week on a regular basis at a value price point?

Value is the most important reason along with the fact that they have a registry.

Can't necessarily argue with your point of the value of CGC versus SGC because VCP does not list CGC pricing so there is no way to easily find comparable sales.

My opinion is that they would be close but I don't have data to back that claim up so I will give you that one.

Agree PSA universally sells for the most over all graded cards the majority of the time. Sure everyone who loves SGC will say well the most a card ever sold for was in a SGC 9.5, the 52 Supposed Finest Rosen Find Mantle. My argument is if that was in a PSA holder it would have sold for double the number it did in a SGC holder.

Pre war and post SGC vintage sells strong but it has to be the right card and great looking. PSA doesn’t have to be, people pay for the registry/brand and a pop to a great extent.

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Respectfully disagree that SGC will sell for the same price on a regular basis with PSA for any card in the same grade.

Are there exceptions on a rare occasion, of course, but not with any regularity.

Why do you think collectors will wait for months for PSA to grade cards or either pay exorbitant prices for grading to get cards back quickly when SGC returns them in a week on a regular basis at a value price point?

Value is the most important reason along with the fact that they have a registry.

Can't necessarily argue with your point of the value of CGC versus SGC because VCP does not list CGC pricing so there is no way to easily find comparable sales.

My opinion is that they would be close but I don't have data to back that claim up so I will give you that one.

Why do you think collectors will wait for months for PSA to grade cards or either pay exorbitant prices for grading to get cards back quickly when SGC returns them in a week on a regular basis at a value price point?

Answer: Because they are sheep.

SGC is in line with PSA prices all day. Try to find a nice SGC T206 for under PSA prices. Good luck.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by vthobby

Why do you think collectors will wait for months for PSA to grade cards or either pay exorbitant prices for grading to get cards back quickly when SGC returns them in a week on a regular basis at a value price point?

Answer: Because they are sheep.

SGC is in line with PSA prices all day. Try to find a nice SGC T206 for under PSA prices. Good luck.

Only need to go back one day to last night's Heritage Auction.

Sold cards.
Ty Cobb Red Portrait PSA 2 Piedmont Back $5760
Ty Cobb Red Portrait SGC 2 Sweet Caporal $4320

SGC brought 75% of PSA price in same grade on a key T206 card with a common back.

[3-2-count]

Those 2 Red Cobbs last night that sold in HA weren’t equal in eye appeal.

The Psa copy was much nicer thus the higher price.

Just my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vthobby

Why do you think collectors will wait for months for PSA to grade cards or either pay exorbitant prices for grading to get cards back quickly when SGC returns them in a week on a regular basis at a value price point?

Answer: Because they are sheep.

SGC is in line with PSA prices all day. Try to find a nice SGC T206 for under PSA prices. Good luck.

Based on my recent experience with a complete disaster of an SGC sub, I will wait every time from now on.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Those 2 Red Cobbs last night that sold in HA weren’t equal in eye appeal.

The Psa copy was much nicer thus the higher price.

Just my opinion.

Yeah, it's difficult to draw any conclusions about the market from a single sample. My guess is that all things being equal PSA outsells SGC even in the core prewar vintage market but that's just my impression, haven't analyzed it. Postwar, and certainly modern and ultramodern, I don't think it's even close.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah, it's difficult to draw any conclusions about the market from a single sample. My guess is that all things being equal PSA outsells SGC even in the core prewar vintage market but that's just my impression, haven't analyzed it. Postwar, and certainly modern and ultramodern, I don't think it's even close.

Agreed!

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Those 2 Red Cobbs last night that sold in HA weren’t equal in eye appeal.

The Psa copy was much nicer thus the higher price.

Just my opinion.

I agree but they were the same grade.

That is my point.

It was not an old SGC holder either and the PSA holder was a very old one.

The values for same grade cards are not equal in most instances which is an argument that has been made here. Just not backed up by facts.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Based on my recent experience with a complete disaster of an SGC sub, I will wait every time from now on.

Mine as well, even disputed the charges on my CC and won!

Specially chose "Canadian " in my 1952 topps sub, all.were returned without the designation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Mine as well, even disputed the charges on my CC and won!

Specially chose "Canadian " in my 1952 topps sub, all.were returned without the designation.

I essentially threw away $700, but I can't imagine I can get it back lol. Mine was just a disaster in terms of nearly every card being graded wrong.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by vthobby

Why do you think collectors will wait for months for PSA to grade cards or either pay exorbitant prices for grading to get cards back quickly when SGC returns them in a week on a regular basis at a value price point?

Answer: Because they are sheep.

SGC is in line with PSA prices all day. Try to find a nice SGC T206 for under PSA prices. Good luck.

Huh? SGC is not in line with PSA prices at anytime of any day, all due respect. I wish they were but that is not an accurate statement in the least. More like wishful thinking.

People might be sheep but they wait for PSA because at the end of the day taking into account longer wait times and higher costs for grading, it is a no brainer on the value side.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Huh? SGC is not in line with PSA prices at anytime of any day, all due respect. I wish they were but that is not an accurate statement in the least. More like wishful thinking.

People might be sheep but they wait for PSA because at the end of the day taking into account longer wait times and higher costs for grading, it is a no brainer on the value side.

The thing is, there is no absolute reason for the difference - stricter grading standards, more consistent grading, more secure slabs, etc. It is only because people think they are worth more, so they pay more. That could change tomorrow, and for some silly reason. But for today, PSA carries a premium.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

The thing is, there is no absolute reason for the difference - stricter grading standards, more consistent grading, more secure slabs, etc. It is only because people think they are worth more, so they pay more. That could change tomorrow, and for some silly reason. But for today, PSA carries a premium.

Perception goes a long way in this life but the other key factor is PSA's registry as many have pointed out many times. Lots of competition and egos pursuing the set registry. he premiums people pay for PSA cards is almost exclusively explained by those two factors, imo.

I only recall a small window of time where SGC prices were consistently closer to what PSA brought but that was only on prewar. Let's face it. PSA has done an incredible job promoting their service and SGC has never done a good job of this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

The thing is, there is no absolute reason for the difference - stricter grading standards, more consistent grading, more secure slabs, etc. It is only because people think they are worth more, so they pay more. That could change tomorrow, and for some silly reason. But for today, PSA carries a premium.

People pay more because they think they're worth more. I hear you, but if you push on that statement, isn't it just a truism? Or said another way, doesn't it just beg the question why people think they're worth more?

As to that question, I think Lorewalker is right that part of the answer lies in the set registry, and part in the superb marketing job PSA has done. Part also lies in the outstanding ancillary services like the pop report, and the ability to look up auction prices. Also, cert lookup is an invaluable tool for people who are trying to avoid altered cards.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

People pay more because they think they're worth more. I hear you, but if you push on that statement, isn't it just a truism? Or said another way, doesn't it just beg the question why people think they're worth more?

As to that question, I think Lorewalker is right that part of the answer lies in the set registry, and part in the superb marketing job PSA has done. Part also lies in the outstanding ancillary services like the pop report, and the ability to look up auction prices. Also, cert lookup is an invaluable tool for people who are trying to avoid altered cards.

And this is why SGC fails and IMO will continue to lose people. More concerned about quickly turning modern crap then they are about building the company. Ever since the registry vanished the company has gone down hill. I was a long time SGC man and am no longer.

As to the original question i do not think CSG values are there yet. They have changed they labels 2-3 times which is not good but i think has finally settled as they merge the non sport and sport divisions.

James G

[CardPadre]

One angle that doesn't seem to be considered as much when comparing values of CSG/CGC to PSA is that, for vintage cards (in my opinion and limited experience), you are more likely to get a higher numeric grade from CGC.

So, to buy or sell an identical quality card you should maybe compare the price of a PSA 6 versus a CGC 7...etc. Then you might see some more favorable/equivalent sales comparisons.

And I don't have indisputable evidence that CGC generally grades vintage easier, just a lazy conclusion that I've drawn from casual observation.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

One angle that doesn't seem to be considered as much when comparing values of CSG/CGC to PSA is that, for vintage cards (in my opinion and limited experience), you are more likely to get a higher numeric grade from CGC.

So, to buy or sell an identical quality card you should maybe compare the price of a PSA 6 versus a CGC 7...etc. Then you might see some more favorable/equivalent sales comparisons.

And I don't have indisputable evidence that CGC generally grades vintage easier, just a lazy conclusion that I've drawn from casual observation.

Not sure about the. The Head graders at CSG are from Beckett and are well known graders, so I would be surprised if there is that type of a grade disparity. I think the grades are generally find, just the holders and flips that are the problem.

People use SGC cause they are quick and cheap and they can't or won't tie up inventory waiting for PSA. CSG is also quick and cheap atm so at least it's another option.

[MikeGarcia]

.. I haven't read any complaints lately about waiting for submissions to be returned from all the big grading companies ?
Are there still unreasonable backlogs at P S A and B G S ? --- S G C seems to be praised here a lot for " fast turnarounds" Has anyone in here recently done any normal old-fashioned submissions from their local P.O. to California and Texas ? Thanks

..

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Perception goes a long way in this life but the other key factor is PSA's registry as many have pointed out many times. Lots of competition and egos pursuing the set registry. he premiums people pay for PSA cards is almost exclusively explained by those two factors, imo.

I only recall a small window of time where SGC prices were consistently closer to what PSA brought but that was only on prewar. Let's face it. PSA has done an incredible job promoting their service and SGC has never done a good job of this.

Bingo. I wish SGC the best, but man, they seem to very content at no. 2.

[Leon]

I will be bringing more cards for CSG to grade.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

That Joss should've gotten a 3.75 for all the extra border...

[3-2-count]

Nice cards Leon. CSG is starting to grow on me!

[Jay Wolt]

....& they look even better in hand
has a glass like look to them & I like the rounded corners
the Beckett slab when tossed can kill someone