Old Man Handwriting?

[jjbond]

So I am new to this hobby.
But as I am looking at collecting signatures, I found that many of the ballplayers lived till their 80's or 90's. And related to that, many of the signatures look...well....like they were written by 90yr olds, and sometimes varies from their earlier years. How does the hobby deal with that? Is there a preference given to signatures that are more legible, from their younger days?

Some examples. Charlie Blackburn lived till he was 89. This signature was from 6 months before he died, but it's more of printing than a signature. Maybe he always wrote this way, or maybe it was just easier later in life?


Snipe Conley lived till he was 83. While I haven't seen other examples of his signature, this isn't that attractive, and looks like old man handwriting:


Bill Otis lived to be 100. This signature looks nice, at the spry age of 92:

But later signatures look more rough (often in blue sharpie, shortened - the 2nd one is on a 100th birthday article)

[JMEnglish27]

I've wondered about this also, but with sort of a different spin...what of the players who changed their signature style dramatically over the years. I'm thinking of Dave Stewart and Don Mattingly, who had markedly different signatures throughout and in Don's case, several different styles.

How do we account for "value" with this sort of thing? I'd imagine I'd be more inclined toward a "rookie era" Mattingly sig versus a managerial era, but who knows when rarity factors in.

BTW, if anyone has an early career "David Stewart" ONL ball laying around, I just lost one in an auction and am looking to buy.

[jjbond]

Not an answer, but I found an article on PSA that discussed the changes to one ballplayer's signature over time:

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...der-hugh-duffy

The right handed signature of "Hugh Duffy" evolved over the years from a smaller, upright (almost obtuse) version to a larger acute style that remained fairly consistent in the 1940's and 50's. The initial stroke of the capital "H" formed what resembled a European "1", broken, then collaborated with a separate vertical downstroke and intersecting loop that pierced the former. In later years, he would generally bisect the second downstroke to lead into the legible "u". He may or may not connect with the always adjoining "gh". The "g" could be mistaken for a lower case cursive "j", stretching high to create an oversized "h" and finishing with a vertically dropping downstroke.

Although closed in earlier times, the capital "D" (the tallest letter) often had a large gap on top with varying styles of open and closed loops. In earlier times, he would not use a baseline initial stroke with the "u" but later it was employed and often elevated the balance of his signature. The attached double "f" combination was tightly configured with triangular bottom loops whose summation bared resemblance to an ornate capital "H". Without a pen lift, a large tilted "y" finished upward normally not violating the baseline. His latter signature slowed down some in the final year and became less fluid and jagged.

So my question would be focused on this latter year, and the implications for collectibility (not for Hugh Duffy specifically of course...)

[packs]

Hank Aaron and Stan Musial are two legends I can think of who have what I call before and after signatures. Personally, I would prefer the younger signatures than the more present "old man" signatures for each. They both signed for a very long time and their later signatures are typically shaky, oversized and poorly placed on the mediums.

[CardPadre]

Reminds me of this. Were people just throwing loads of stuff in front of him on his deathbed and making him sign? I thought this was kinda gross.

[Bigdaddy]

I think the earlier signatures are generally more sought after, but more so because they are easier to date and represent an earlier time in their career (sort of like rookie cards).

There are some players who have stark contrasts in their signatures due to strokes or other physical incidents that have a distinct 'before/after' rather than the gradual changes due to age. Two that immediately come to mind are Carl Hubbell and Buck Leonard, both of who had strokes later in life but kept signing autographs.

For more recent players, many times their signature changes (usually in the direction of looking more like a scribble) due to the fact that they become more popular and the demand for their signature increases.

Probably the most recent example of completely changed signatures is Randy Johnson (Big Unit). He has two or more distinct styles of signatures that in no way resemble each other.

[mrmopar]

Not a ball, nor is it available, but here is a 1975 18 year old David Stewart autograph.

Originally Posted by JMEnglish27

I've wondered about this also, but with sort of a different spin...what of the players who changed their signature style dramatically over the years. I'm thinking of Dave Stewart and Don Mattingly, who had markedly different signatures throughout and in Don's case, several different styles.

How do we account for "value" with this sort of thing? I'd imagine I'd be more inclined toward a "rookie era" Mattingly sig versus a managerial era, but who knows when rarity factors in.

BTW, if anyone has an early career "David Stewart" ONL ball laying around, I just lost one in an auction and am looking to buy.

[ThomasL]

I have seen better examples of JP Conley and Foster Blackburn (a shaky cursive signature of Blackburn)

I think this kind of relates to what you are asking about

Also consider that cleaner sigs might be wife signatures....I dont know if anyone has really talked about Wife signatures but I bet some fan mail requests were handled by a wife or family member

I have held on to these as an example

Charlie Robertson signature was pretty shaky later in life. He was pushed back in the public eye after Don Larsen's perfect game. I chanced across a check his wife signed and it explains why two cut autographs I had (one pictured) looked nothing like his other signatures.

The note on the check "Car Repair" is in his hand writing

[ThomasL]

The extremes of James Patrick Snipe Conley
This is the best Conley I have seen, and thought it might have been made by someone on his behalf but I think it is an earlier signature of his bc of the J and P formations are consistent

Many signatures change significantly after a stroke (Buck Leonard is a perfect example) and yes people do try to collect pre-stroke signatures. Jack Fournier is an example I have had a few of both pre and post stroke.

[Wrightfan85]

Here's my Warren Spahn HOF postcard signed in person July 2003. He died in November of that year:

[JMEnglish27]

Originally Posted by mrmopar

Not a ball, nor is it available, but here is a 1975 18 year old David Stewart autograph.

Nice!!