Interesting facts about Pre-War Players - share yours

[packs]

Pitcher Ed Porray, whose career in major league baseball consisted of starting 3 games for the 1914 Buffalo Buffeds of the Federal League, was born on a ship in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. He is the only MLB player to not have been born in any country and even his Baseball Reference page lists his place of birth as "Atlantic Ocean".

Sadly, he does not have a card.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Al Moore's place of death is "Atlantic Ocean".

Sticking with Porray, he was a Vaudeville actor & professional musician. Not too many players found a full-time career in music. Connie Creeden was a professional drummer.

[chiprop]

I believe this is the only player in the t-206 set that has a mustache...

036CFB03-85CB-4D92-85EA-0E6BF9CFD059_1_201_a.jpg

Sam Barkley, the Grandfather of the name "Pittsburg Pirates"

[Rad_Hazard]

Paul Hines achieved the first Triple Crown in baseball history.

Excerpt from Fifty-Nine in '84: Old Hoss Radbourn, Barehanded Baseball, and the Greatest Season a Pitcher Ever Had by Edward Achorn:

Hines was a notorious character. Vain, competitive, and poorly educated, he was so deaf that he needed to hold a brass trumpet to his ear to hear what others were saying, and he often talked out loud to himself, as if such a conversation were as natural as any other. At one point that season, when umpire Billy McLean warned him that he would be fined if he kept sassing umpires in his audible monologues, Hines grumbled to himself, “If me was out of debt, me would not play ball another day.” He liked to boast to his teammates that he had been raised in an affluent Washington family, but when one actually looked up Hines’s “good Hibernian parents” one day, he was shocked to learn they lived in a shanty.

His honesty was suspect in other ways, too. Once he stole another man’s prized buckskin baseball shoes, and when the man asked Hines if he had seen them, he got no answer. “Paul is very deaf when he wants to be, and the shoes were carried off,” a Cleveland Herald reporter recounted. The next time Hines played against the man’s team, he did not dare to wear the stolen shoes, and went out on the field in his street shoes. Hines cost his team the game by slipping, trying to field a fly ball that soared over his head, prompting his manager to fine him for his poor performance—more than the stolen shoes were worth. On another occasion, a reporter had deposited at a hotel front desk his official score of a game, for use by a fellow newspaperman. Upon returning, “I found Paul at work on it, with a carpenter’s pencil as thick as a club, changing his single hit into two. He was at once so deaf as to be unable to hear my admonition against any future trick of the kind.” Even without the benefit of fraudulent scoring, he was a great hitter, and had twice led the National League in batting.

[ParisianJohn]

Rice.jpg

In 1912 when a 22 year-old Sam Rice was pitching for his minor league team on the road in Illinois his wife and their two little children went to stay with his parents in Indiana. At that time a tornado came through and destroyed Rice's parents' home and killed his wife, both of their kids, his parents and two of his sisters.

Rice is then said to have wandered around the US for a year before joining the US Navy. He even wound up being involved in the Battle of Veracruz down in Mexico before leaving the service and returning to baseball. Rice switched to the outfield and wound up making the Majors in 1915 at age 25 - not too old, but probably a bit older than he'd have been if life hadn't detour him. He played only 4 games that season and 58 the next season in 1916. After being a full-timer in 1917, he played only 7 games in 1918 before being recalled to military service due to World War I. After training, Rice was sent to France but never saw action as the war ended. At that time he was 28 and had only 247 hits.

Rice made up for it and played until he was 44 and racked up 2,987 hits when he retired in 1934. There was no Hall of Fame yet, and with less folks like us around to let him know, Rice said he had no clue he was so close to 3,000 hits. Despite a .322 lifetime average he wasn't a big power hitter and he missed that "magic number" of 3,000 hits, so he didn't get into the Hall until the Veterans Committee elected him in 1963 when he was 73 years-old.

Rice had remarried and two years later in 1965 he was being interviewed about his life in front of his wife and stepchildren. It was only during that interview that they learned about that 1912 tornado and his old family.

Above is my 1933 Goudey of Rice.

[ValKehl]

A couple of additions to John's post about Sam Rice. Rice told very few, if any, of his teammates about the tragedy that befell his family.

Rice actually came to the Senators as a pitcher in 1915. Clark Griffith acquired Rice from the Petersburg Goobers of the Virginia League in exchange for cancelling a debt of several hundred dollars owed to Griffith by the cash-strapped Goobers owner. Rice's MLB pitching record for 1915-16 is 1 win and 1 loss with a 2.52 ERA. It wasn't until July 1916 that Rice was converted to a full-time outfielder.

Sam Rice's SABR bio is an interesting read: https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/Sam-Rice/

[ParisianJohn]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

A couple of additions to John's post about Sam Rice. Rice told very few, if any, of his teammates about the tragedy that befell his family.

Rice actually came to the Senators as a pitcher in 1915. Clark Griffith acquired Rice from the Petersburg Goobers of the Virginia League in exchange for cancelling a debt of several hundred dollars owed to Griffith by the cash-strapped Goobers owner. Rice's MLB pitching record for 1915-16 is 1 win and 1 loss with a 2.52 ERA. It wasn't until July 1916 that Rice was converted to a full-time outfielder.

Sam Rice's SABR bio is an interesting read: https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/Sam-Rice/

Thanks for that correction on when Rice switched to the outfield, thus making his career hit total more impressive.

In addition to his SABR bio Val posted, here is an article Sports Illustrated wrote about him in 1993. I read it as a teenager and was fascinated by the man, this his card was the first Goudey I ever bought (it does cover a lot of the same ground that the SABR bio has, but they don't totally overlap):

https://vault.si.com/vault/1993/07/1...re-was-nowhere

[darkhorse9]

George Browne played right field for the New York Giants in 1905. Late in a game against Philadelphia manager John McGraw took Browne out of the game and substituted him with a rookie named Archibald "Moonlight" Graham.
Attachment 577823

[ValKehl]

John, thanks for the link to the very enjoyable SI piece about Sam Rice.

[Tabe]

My go-to for this topic is this:

Hoss Radbourn is the first person known to have been photographed flipping the bird.

And he did it at least twice.

[Casey2296]

Amos Rusie is the reason they moved the pitchers mound to 60'6".

Bob Gibson is the reason they lowered the mound.

[z28jd]

Reddy Grey got into his only big league game by very lucky timing. The 1903 Pirates were short two position players on a road trip and needed a fill-in for their final game against Boston. Grey was on his way to Worcester that same day to report to his new team. Worcester had the day off, so he filled in for the Pirates, singled, walked and drove in two runs (online stats say one, but numerous sources from the day say two). He left the Pirates after the game and joined his new team.

Grey was a former minor league teammate of Zane Grey, the famous author, who was also his brother.

https://history.pittsburghbaseball.c...-smiling-pete/

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Bob Gibson is the reason they lowered the mound.

You sure he was pre-war?

[brianp-beme]

George "Tex" Wisterzil played in both 1914 and 1915 in the Federal Leagues, as well as 16 years in the minors, including a 1918 through 1923 stretch in the PCL. He is featured in four different Zeenut sets (1918, 1919, 1920 and 1922) with three different spellings of his last name (Wisterzill, Westerzil, and Westersil), all incorrect.

Brian

[GeoPoto]

James E. "Grasshopper" Whitney. Pitcher with the Washington Nationals in 1887-1888. In 1881, Whitney's 31-33 record led the league in both wins and losses; 31 wins still stands as the MLB record for wins and a losing record. He died in 1891 of tuberculosis at the age of 33.

(Note that the flip identifies Art Whitney, who was an active MLB player in the era, but never for Washington. Jim Whitney, on the other hand, played for Washington in 1887-1888. The picture on the card is generic.)

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1688118228

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Wow, 33 was his unlucky number. Kind of a Bizarro Roger Maris thing going on with him (61 in 61).

[Vintagecatcher]

There have been 94 players who have finished their career with a 1.000 batting average with 83 of them finishing at 1-for-1, according to The Elias Sports Bureau.

One of those players is catcher George Yantz, who went 1 for 1 for the Cubs in 1912.

Here are his 1910 T210-3 cards (Red and Orange borders)

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...antzge01.shtml

Patrick

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I'll also share my thanks for the link to the Rice article. A very, very, very overlooked HOFer. It felt right to appreciate his career and life a little more.

[ParisianJohn]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I'll also share my thanks for the link to the Rice article. A very, very, very overlooked HOFer. It felt right to appreciate his career and life a little more.

I'm glad to share that article. I knew Rice's name from the baseball encyclopedias (which earned him a roster spot on my all-time Twins team in a league I created in Earl Weaver Baseball on my old PC) but I didn't know much of anything about him until I read that article and he's been one of my favorites since then.

If I can add another one, how about Johnny Kling? After winning back-to-back World Series titles with the Cubs he sat out all of 1909 to play professional billiards. He even won a world championship while the Cubs finished second behind the Pirates that season.

[jingram058]

Eddie Grant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Grant_(baseball)

[paul]

Following up on Brian's post about George "Tex" Wisterzil -- Ross Youngs is a Hall of Famer and does not have a single card on which his name is spelled correctly.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Sam Crane (1894-1955) murdered two people.

[jjbond]

Max Flack and Cliff Heathcote each played on both teams during a double-header on May 30, 1922, having been traded mid-game.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Cliff Heathcote lived across the street from my friend Clyde Sukeforth about 100 years ago. Considering how few players have hailed from the state of Maine, that's a pretty interesting fact.

[frankbmd]

Eddie Waitkus was not shot by a crazed woman before or during WW2.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by jjbond

Max Flack and Cliff Heathcote each played on both teams during a double-header on May 30, 1922, having been traded mid-game.

Q: Did you hear what happened to Helena Rubenstein?

A: Max Flack 'er.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Eddie Waitkus was not shot by a crazed woman before or during WW2.

1949, and makes for one of the funniest baseball cards. This is his actual 1955 Bowman, not a photoshop joke.

[Jcosta19]

Tony Lazzeri slashed .355, 60HR. 222 RBI for Salt Lake City of the PCL in 1925 and was passed up for a Major League contract by Chicago due to his history of epilepsy allowing the Yankees to ultimately sign him for the 1926 season.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

[Touch'EmAll]

Walter Johnson vs. Babe Ruth

These are consecutive head-to-head games of the two pitchers:

August 14, 1915 - Ruth defeats Johnson 4-3
April 17, 1916 - Ruth defeats Johnson 5-1
June 1, 1916 - Ruth defeats Johnson 1-0
August 15, 1916 - Ruth defeats Johnson 1-0 in 13 innings
September 9, 1916 - Ruth defeats Johnson 2-1
September 12, 1916 - Johnson defeats Ruth 4-3

Walter Johnson was in his prime. Babe Ruth was very young. Ruth defeated Johnson 5 times in a row before he lost to the Big Train. Walter Johnson is considered one of the top pitchers of All Time, arguably the best.

I know I've tossed this info out a couple times before, but again for those who haven't seen it.

[tedzan]

Francis Joseph "Lefty" O'Doul is one of my favorite guys in Baseball.
Lefty's career BA is an outstanding .349 over a Major League career that spanned 11 years. His hitting ability is high-lighted by a .398 BA with 254 Hits,
32 HR's, 122 RBI's, while playing for the Phillies in 1929. He followed that up with a .383 BA in 1930.
I could relate a number of interesting stories about Lefty, but I leave it to you to read his SABR write-up...... https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/lefty-odoul/


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[jingram058]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Francis Joseph "Lefty" O'Doul is one of my favorite guys in Baseball.
Lefty's career BA is an outstanding .349 over a Major League career that spanned 11 years. His hitting ability is high-lighted by a .398 BA with 254 Hits,
32 HR's, 122 RBI's, while playing for the Phillies in 1929. He followed that up with a .383 BA in 1930.
I could relate a number of interesting stories about Lefty, but I leave it to you to read his SABR write-up...... https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/lefty-odoul/


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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He ought to be in the HoF. Cannot believe he isn't. There are others. We've been through it here, everyone has their opinion. I just feel he and a few others ought to be in.

[cgjackson222]

Harry Stovey was a trailblazing baseball player and a good person. Some of my favorite facts about him:

1) Was the all-time career Home Run king on separate occasions. He surpassed Charley Jones in 1885 when he hit his 46th career Home Run. Though he was surpassed by Dan Brouthers, he later retook the lead in 1889 and became the first player to reach 100 Home Runs the following year.

2) Is one of only three players to have played in a minimum of 1,000 games and averaged more than one run scored per game. Billy Hamilton and George Gore are the others. Stovey scored 1,495 runs in 1,489 games, including nine seasons of 100 or more runs scored.

4) Played on championship teams in 3 Leagues. He won the pennant in 1883 in the American Association, the year he became the first hitter to hit more than 10 Home Runs in a season (14), which was more than five of the seven American Association Teams hit in total. He won a championship in the short-lived Players League with the Boston Reds in 1990. And he won a pennant in 1891 with the Boston Beaneaters.

4) He is credited with inventing sliding pads to protect the often bruised and scraped hips he suffered while sliding on the crudely manicured nineteenth-century fields. He is recognized as one of the first baserunners to slide feet-first into bases and mastering the technique of the pop-up slide, a revolutionary method of going into a base that put added pressure on the defense. However, his aggressive sliding led to many leg injuries (of himself—he did not spike people) during his career.

5) Was born Harry D. Stow but went by Stovey so that his Mom wouldn’t know he was playing baseball if she read a box score in a paper. After he retired from baseball in 1893, he resumed the name Harry Stow, and Harry Stovey ceased to exist. In 1895 he joined the New Bedford police force and served for 28 years. While patrolling his beat along the city’s waterfront one day in 1901, Officer Stow spotted a seven-year-old boy who had fallen between two piers and was struggling in the water. He dived in and saved the boy’s life. Soon afterward he was promoted to sergeant for bravery and became a captain in 1915.

[doug.goodman]

While researching my m113 Phillies team tonight I discovered that there was a player who's actual given name was Bud Weiser.

I think that it itself is an interesting fact, but here's some other stuff :
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/Bud-Weiser/

Oh, and the m113 is the 1915 Team, due to Beals Becker being in the picture, and I think the existence of a 1916 Phillies team m113 (or m114) is a mistake in the Standard Catalog.

[mrreality68]

Wow some amazing history being brought to life.

Love the history of baseball

Keep them coming

[David W]

Austin McHenry and Bill Delancey were Cardinal rising stars in the 1920's and 30's. McHenry died at age 26 from a brain tumor, and Delancey got TB at age 23, dying at age 35.

Branch Rickey said Delancey was one of the 3 greatest catchers of all time.

I have both of these cards, but not scanned, pulled these off of EBAY.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Francis Joseph "Lefty" O'Doul is one of my favorite guys in Baseball.
Lefty's career BA is an outstanding .349 over a Major League career that spanned 11 years. His hitting ability is high-lighted by a .398 BA with 254 Hits,
32 HR's, 122 RBI's, while playing for the Phillies in 1929. He followed that up with a .383 BA in 1930.
I could relate a number of interesting stories about Lefty, but I leave it to you to read his SABR write-up...... https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/lefty-odoul/


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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Lefty owned a great watering hole just off Union Square in San Fran called, not surprisingly, O'Doul's, where I managed to quaff a few ales when I was in town. Food wasn't too bad either, as I recall.
He was also a force in the development of Japanese professional ball.

[GeoPoto]

Bill Joyce: In 1941 Ted Williams set a record for reaching base in consecutive games (among others); in doing so, Williams broke Joyce's record of 64 games set in 1891. Joyce also holds (a tie for) the record with 4 triples in one game.

Otis Stocksdale: Stocksdale pitched for four MLB seasons, but never had a winning record; he did, however, hit .310. He was born in Maryland and attended Johns Hopkins University, which makes him the player with the highest major league batting average to come out of Johns Hopkins.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1688723023
https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1688723028

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

Otis Stocksdale: Stocksdale pitched for four MLB seasons, but never had a winning record; he did, however, hit .310. He was born in Maryland and attended Johns Hopkins University, which makes him the player with the highest major league batting average to come out of Johns Hopkins.

By utilizing the magic that is the internet, I located the following starchy Stocksdale footnote in the SABR writeup for turn of the century pitcher Moxie Manuel:

The starch ball was likely invented by pitcher Otis Stockdale, who worked in the laundry business in the offseason. Mineral ingredients in the Atlanta soil gave the loaded spitball a soapy, oily feel. Stockdale used starch to counteract that condition, according to the article “Can’t Use the Spit Ball in Atlanta,” Altoona (Pennsylvania) Times, June 14, 1907

Brian