1902 Pittsburgh Pirates Team Player Identification

[pete zouras]

Who is the player the caption lists as unknown to the left of Fred Clarke? Photo is from an old book on Pittsburgh. Thanks

[milkit1]

I would say almost certainly it is Kitty Bransfield

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by milkit1

I would say almost certainly it is Kitty Bransfield

Quick search on Google, and yes sir, +1 on that.

[RUKen]

I think it's not Bransfield. The photo must date from 1900, the only year that all of the named players were on the team. Tom O'Brien died in February of 1901, after gulping down seawater to try to cure sea-sickness on a boat to Cuba with touring teams. Latimer, Flaherty, Dillon, Schriver, and Woods were also not on the team in either 1901 or 1902, and Bransfield joined the Pirates for the 1901 season. He played for Worcester in the Eastern League in 1900, and as far as I know was not in training with Pittsburg that spring.

Is it possible to post a better scan of the image? The blurriness makes it hard for me to find a match for the facial features, but I think Deacon Phillippe may be a possibility, though the hairline seems too high for him. It may also be someone who did not make the team.

[pete zouras]

Same thought Phillipe or someone who didn't make the team.

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by RUKen

Tom O'Brien died in February of 1901, after gulping down seawater to try to cure sea-sickness on a boat to Cuba with touring teams.

I had to look it up after reading this. According to what I found on the web:

"O'Brien died in Phoenix, Arizona at the age of 27, from pneumonia resulting from lung disease. He believed his disease was caused by his drinking a large amount of salty seawater after having been told that it would cure his seasickness."

So probably not the water.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

I had to look it up after reading this. According to what I found on the web: "O'Brien died in Phoenix, Arizona at the age of 27, from pneumonia resulting from lung disease. He believed his disease was caused by his drinking a large amount of salty seawater after having been told that it would cure his seasickness." So probably not the water.

According to his SABR biography, drinking the seawater caused O'Brien to vomit profusely. He was unable to play in the games in Cuba, and returned to the United States, and traveled to Arizona to recover, but developed pneumonia. "His weakened condition brought on by drinking seawater and vomiting made him susceptible to the illness."

Returning to the possible ID of the player, the Pirates had a catcher named Louis Deal with them during spring training. He did not appear in any major league games; he had played for Meriden in 1899 and then played for Rochester and Dayton in 1900, before disappearing from organized baseball. I have not seen a picture of him, but he may be the unidentified player. Catchers were not always stockily built back then; for example, Connie Mack had been a catcher.

I haven't come across any other names that are not already accounted for.

[nolemmings]

It does seem that the pic dates to 1900, at least if the player IDs and locale are stated correctly. The Pirates held Spring Training in Hot Springs, Arkansas in 1902, but Thomasville in 1900. Either way, it's too bad there's no Honus Wagner in the group shot (I'm no facial recognition expert, but I'll bet a day's pay that the unknown subject ain't him)

[rhettyeakley]

Some of those ID’s are suspect.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Some of those ID’s are suspect.

For comparison, I have posted below a photo of the 1900 team in spring training, with IDs by myself and one other poster at Baseball-Fever.com, and have also posted a newspaper clipping of a group photo of the team with IDs in the caption.

Standing (L-R): Tommy Leach (3B), Honus Wagner (RF), Pop Schriver (C), Ginger Beaumont (CF), Tom McCreery (LF/RF), Walt Woods (P), Patsy Flaherty (P).
Kneeling (L-R): Chief Zimmer (C), Tacks Latimer (C), Tom O'Brien (1B/LF), Deacon Phillippe (P), Jimmy Williams (2B), Fred Clarke (LF/Mgr.), Jesse Tannehill (P).
Sitting (L-R): Sam Leever (P), Bones Ely (SS), possibly Tom Messitt (Louisville C, did not play for Pit in 1900) or Louis Deal (minor league C, did not play for Pit in 1900), possibly Jack Chesbro (P), Pop Dillon (1B), Claude Ritchey (2B), Rube Waddell (P).

[rhettyeakley]

Walter Woods is not the man sitting in the middle of the original photo. He is a very distinct looking person and that man has a rounder face. That is why I am questioning some of the id’s. The person id’d as Pop Dillon in the original image looks more like Woods.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Walter Woods is not the man sitting in the middle of the original photo. He is a very distinct looking person and that man has a rounder face. That is why I am questioning some of the id’s. The person id’d as Pop Dillon in the original image looks more like Woods.

I agree that it appears to be Woods sitting in the middle of the bottom row, rather than third from the left in the middle row.

[jingram058]

Back to OP's original question. Sure looks A LOT like Kitty Bransfield. If it can't be, then so be it. I'm not a forensic reconstruction artist, or a historical baseball statistician. Looks more like him than anyone else.