New CSG label. Pretty slick...

[luciobar1980]

On their front page:

https://www.csgcards.com/

[riggs336]

Certainly an improvement imo.

[luciobar1980]

Definitely. I like it a lot.

[dbrown]

From a CSG email that just arrived:

CSG Ups Its Game with a New Label and Revised Grading Scale

CSG is excited to reveal its brand-new certification label! The bold yet refined design is the result of months of research and development, including market studies, focus groups and extensive testing. Green is gone in favor of a black, silver and gold palette that will complement — not compete with — the colors of any sports card.

CSG is also updating its grading scale to more closely align with the sports card collecting market. The CSG Pristine 10 grade will be replaced by CSG Gem Mint 10, which corresponds to the nomenclature used by other leading sports card grading services. The next-highest grade will be CSG Mint+ 9.5.

“These updates reflect CSG’s commitment to provide the best possible services to the sports card collecting community,” says Andy Broome, CSG Senior Grading Finalizer. “We listened to collector and dealer feedback and are thrilled with the results of these changes.”

“CSG is here to win,” says Steven R. Eichenbaum, CEO of the Certified Collectibles Group, of which CSG is a part. “The new label looks fantastic, and we have the sports card collecting community to thank for helping us to step up our game.”

[BobbyStrawberry]

Much more visually appealing, in my view. Although it still looks to me like there is too much empty white space on the label.

[mrreality68]

Wow I like the look maybe they will start taking market share from the big boys

[Casey2296]

I like it, now if they would offer a black apron option they'd gain some marketshare.

[Vintagedeputy]

Their name and scales logo is straight up theft from SGC.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Wow I like the look maybe they will start taking market share from the big boys

PSA's holder, to me, is not one of the best in the business. Even if nobody agrees I think it takes much more than a holder and a label to get more market share. I do like the look of the new holder, however.

[Snowman]

They already had the best slabs by a long shot. But now that they've ditched the ugly labels and the shitty grading scale, and decided to copy SGC, they should be a major player going forward IMO.

Best slabs on the market, decent looking new flip, and a grading scale that collectors actually desire? Adios BGS. It was nice knowing you.

PSA > SGC > CSG > BGS will probably be the new order of preference by the hobby in the years to come.

[JMANOS]

Telling u they know what there doing being around for decades doing coins and comics.

[Luke]

That's a big improvement. The slabs themselves really are nice for anyone who hasn't held one. The plastic is crystal clear and the holders have a little extra weight to them. Maybe not great if you have a box of 200 of them, but it feels nice in your hand. I don't like the way smaller cards float around inside them.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Their name and scales logo is straight up theft from SGC.

You can't steal what you already owned. SGC was, at one point, part of the same company.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You can't steal what you already owned. SGC was, at one point, part of the same company.

Well, isn't that interesting. Why the separation?

[BobC]

This could be a game changer for CSG. When they first launched, remember all the negative comments and opinions of their design and labels? Well, they apparently are anything but dumb, and by going through such a process to review, test, and really find out what their customer base wants, they are demonstrating a truly business oriented, give the customer what they want, mentality and way of operating. They appear to have started out using their techniques and procedures from their other collectible grading services, and then have no problem in taking the initiative and feedback gathered since they started this new grading venture and making significant changes in answer to market demand and needs.

Bottom line is, these CSG people are smart, extremely knowledgeable about collectible grading services, willing and able to make changes their customer base wants, and forward thinking. They appear to be taking and combining the best attributes of their competition, such as using similar grading scales and terms, creating their own registry, and now designing a holder and flip to better accentuate the items they are grading. They've already pulled off a major coup on their competitors by aligning with Ebay in partnering with them in their new authentication protocol, which for now seems to be going well. This can set them up to potentially offer their full grading services through or in conjunction with Ebay, and basically cut off a possible large part of the original "big three" TPG's market. They also seem to currently be delivering services at timing turnaround levels and pricing that their competition cannot.

These people at CSG are not playing around, and you apparently don't have to always be waiting till next Monday for them to actually do something. If I were the competition at PSA, SGC, or Beckett, I'd be having meetings galore to try and brainstorm ways to counter, mitigate, and somehow try to stop, or at least slow down, the momentum and favor CSG is building with moves like this.

The major things still in CSG's way, as I see it, are the ingrained and long-term use and familiarity collectors have with the original "big three" TPGs, especially one particular TPG's registry, and the biggest of all, the 800 lb. gorilla in the room if you will, is the perceived pricing differential that one of those "big three" TPGs has over the others. I'm guessing that the CSG people already have plans to eventually supplant PSA as the perceived most valuable TPG service out there, in terms of what prices cards graded by them will bring versus those graded by other TPGs, and will very soon, if they haven't already, put such plans in motion.

And before anyone makes a smart-a$$ comment, no, I don't own, work for, or have anything to do with CSG. I don't even own a single card graded by them........yet! It seems inevitable I eventually will though.

[glchen]

The new flips for CSG are a huge improvement from their original one. Previously, I thought the flip was so bad, I would refuse to submit to CSG and be reluctant to even purchase CSG-holdered cards. These new flips are nice. I wouldn't hesitate to submit to CSG or purchase CSG cards in the future.

However, I think the biggest gap for CSG right now is that they need to be able to holder cards beyond the standard sized ones. That is, all other TPG's holder at least up to 6"x9" sized cards/premiums, and PSA and Beckett go up to 8"x11". CSG needs to at least match what SGC holders to be in the same class as the Big 3 TPGs. The fact that they do not yet holder postcard-sized cards should be an embarrassment to them.

The other nice to have improvement I'd like to see from CSG is their insert for non-standard sized cards like T206's. See below for a comparison using the old CSG holders. (None of these cards are mine. Took images from ebay.) You can see by this comparison for the overall presentation of the card, SGC still wins. Based on the insert, PSA is still probably slightly better than CSG. CSG has a nicer flip than Beckett now, so it probably beats Beckett.

My current ranking: SGC > PSA > CSG > Beckett

There's a star by Beckett, however. I absolutely love Beckett's black label flip. I can understand why some OCD collectors would just stick w/ Black label in their collection. Even the gold label is pretty nice. However, prewar for Beckett is stuck w/ the white label or blue label, which are the worst. The other consideration is Beckett also offers the holders with the best protection. They're the only holder where I wouldn't worry about damage if I accidentally dropped it. Therefore, from a protection standpoint, I wouldn't have any issues with submitting or buying Beckett cards either.

[JustinD]

I honestly think the current design is hideous and easily the worst on the market. The bad heat seals on the penny sleeve inside are often done so poorly they detract even more than the label which has as much effort as a page header in a high school newspaper.

That said the new design is SO MUCH better, I hope they downsized the case to a more traditional length. I did also love the subgrades but very bummed they are removed unless it is a 10 and that seems pointless as they are likely doing this so it's just 4 - 10s to save labor.

Here is the quote from the release - "CSG will continue to assign the CSG Perfect 10 grade to the best of the best, which will have flawless centering, corners, edges and surface. However, now all cards that merit a CSG Perfect 10 will receive sub-grades by default for free, with no special request required. Sub-grades will be discontinued for other grades."

[BobC]

Originally Posted by glchen

The new flips for CSG are a huge improvement from their original one. Previously, I thought the flip was so bad, I would refuse to submit to CSG and be reluctant to even purchase CSG-holdered cards. These new flips are nice. I wouldn't hesitate to submit to CSG or purchase CSG cards in the future.

However, I think the biggest gap for CSG right now is that they need to be able to holder cards beyond the standard sized ones. That is, all other TPG's holder at least up to 6"x9" sized cards/premiums, and PSA and Beckett go up to 8"x11". CSG needs to at least match what SGC holders to be in the same class as the Big 3 TPGs. The fact that they do not yet holder postcard-sized cards should be an embarrassment to them.

The other nice to have improvement I'd like to see from CSG is their insert for non-standard sized cards like T206's. See below for a comparison using the old CSG holders. (None of these cards are mine. Took images from ebay.) You can see by this comparison for the overall presentation of the card, SGC still wins. Based on the insert, PSA is still probably slightly better than CSG. CSG has a nicer flip than Beckett now, so it probably beats Beckett.

My current ranking: SGC > PSA > CSG > Beckett

There's a star by Beckett, however. I absolutely love Beckett's black label flip. I can understand why some OCD collectors would just stick w/ Black label in their collection. Even the gold label is pretty nice. However, prewar for Beckett is stuck w/ the white label or blue label, which are the worst. The other consideration is Beckett also offers the holders with the best protection. They're the only holder where I wouldn't worry about damage if I accidentally dropped it. Therefore, from a protection standpoint, I wouldn't have any issues with submitting or buying Beckett cards either.

Gary,

If CSG is smart, which they seem to be, they'll continue to monitor and listen to customer's wants, and actually try to fulfil them. With the seeming success they've had so far, I won't be surprised to see them start branching out into other cards/sports collectibles requiring different size holders. I would fell pretty confident that that is coming.

Would also like to see them offer the inserts, as you mentioned, and can even see them maybe one day offering a similar black sleeve/border that SGC has for all their holders that often enhances the look of the enclosed cards. In fact, if I were them, I'd even think about offering it as an option to have cards encapsulated either with or without the SGC style sleeve/border. That way people that maybe don't like the black sleeve/border, don't have to have them. And for those that do like them, they could probably get away with charging an extra $1-$2 to have the sleeve/border added. And who says they have to just be black. Why not offer various sleeve/border color options so collectors can further personalize their collections. Or what about sleeves/borders incorporating team colors? There are lots of team oriented collectors that would likely go crazy for something like that. The main idea is to give your customer base options, and the more options generally leads to a bigger customer base. And again, you could probably charge a nominal extra fee for some of these options, that customers would gladly pay. Heck, I'd even suggest they set up a sort of interactive page on their website where you could digitally test what a card from a particular set looked like using different colored sleeve/border options. That way they'd know exactly what their graded card would look like based on their color choice(s) before paying for it. If nothing else, it would probably be a great advertising feature drawing people to their site just to play around with it. The potential options of what they do or offer to set themselves apart from their competition are really untapped.

[GrewUpWithJunkWax]

The green looked good with certain cards, but moving to the neutral black should be a lot better. The overall design of the new label is just okay.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by GrewUpWithJunkWax

The green looked good with certain cards, but moving to the neutral black should be a lot better. The overall design of the new label is just okay.

its an improvement...imo. pretty soon it will look just like sgc's slab!

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

its an improvement...imo. pretty soon it will look just like sgc's slab!

Jesus, how many times did the prewar guys here say "give us sgc presentation and Psa registry and we'll come in droves". All they had to do to embrace the pre-war crowd was fly Leon up for an all expenses paid weekend and pick his brain. Instead they picked a hideous lime green label and damn the torpedoes..
And finally they listened after spending tens of thousands of dollars they didn't need to, unbelievable. I want the guy who chose the green label and the people who signed off in it to come here and explain their justification. Hubris at its finest.

[Jobu]

And why on earth they don't put the ad back and factory #s on the flip is beyond me. A chance to build a meaningful pop report from scratch and they blow it.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Jobu

And why on earth they don't put the ad back and factory #s on the flip is beyond me. A chance to build a meaningful pop report from scratch and they blow it.

I'd wager good money this issue gets resolved soon.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by JustinD

That said the new design is SO MUCH better, I hope they downsized the case to a more traditional length.

The exterior dimensions of the holder are exactly the same as PSA's holder. It looks longer because the part of the PSA holder that is dead space is taken up with the larger label for doing Beckett-style subgrades. I am sure that the black borders were chosen to try and neutralize all that white.



See what I mean?

What you are really asking for is a reconfiguration of the internal dimensions. That would require a complete redo of the moulds and dies, and that it is so expensive that it is never going to happen.

As for the holder itself, far and away nicer than the PSA shell. The fully polished surface looks very sharp BUT you have to keep it clean. I wipe them down with a glasses cleaning cloth and immediately get them into fitted PSA sleeves.

Just for giggles, let's see some old-school holders. Here's an early SGC:

[ullmandds]

I think the font can be improved upon...and just remove this silly vertical line and we're pretty happy!!!!

[Snowman]

I wonder how long the line for reholders is going to be?

[Snowman]

I think even better than the much improved flip is the fact that they ditched the BGS grading scale. Collectors just don't like it. The hobby has made that abundantly clear over the past couple years. People want a Gem Mint card to say 10 on the flip, not 9.5.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The exterior dimensions of the holder are exactly the same as PSA's holder. It looks longer because the part of the PSA holder that is dead space is taken up with the larger label for doing Beckett-style subgrades. I am sure that the black borders were chosen to try and neutralize all that white.

You are of course right. I dug up the only CSG that has made it into my collection so far and I have been falling for an optical illusion because of that oversized flip.

It is indeed annoying to me personally as it is so large and garish, but to each their own. I fall in the minority by a mile as I far and away prefer Beckett slabs. The quality and weight is there and the flip is minimal. So if someone appreciates the appeal of CSG as I saw in other comments, I don't have a leg to stand on.

As per the status quo of my posts...it's always "just my opinion",

I will fall back on my original comment of that I do like the change and hope for more improvements in the future. For the time being if it's a beautiful card in the green holster, there's a decent chance it's coming out, lol.

[Hankphenom]

The card they show has complimentary colors. Not sure how the yellow and green graphics will match with red, purple, etc. cards. SGC, all green and black, was the classiest, in my meaningless opinion. Cards actually look their best all by themselves, but that horse has left the barn.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The exterior dimensions of the holder are exactly the same as PSA's holder. It looks longer because the part of the PSA holder that is dead space is taken up with the larger label for doing Beckett-style subgrades. I am sure that the black borders were chosen to try and neutralize all that white.



See what I mean?

What you are really asking for is a reconfiguration of the internal dimensions. That would require a complete redo of the moulds and dies, and that it is so expensive that it is never going to happen.

As for the holder itself, far and away nicer than the PSA shell. The fully polished surface looks very sharp BUT you have to keep it clean. I wipe them down with a glasses cleaning cloth and immediately get them into fitted PSA sleeves.

Just for giggles, let's see some old-school holders. Here's an early SGC:

1938 Goudey R323 269 by Greg Martin, on Flickr


.

[Natedog]

i didn't mind the green labels, even without the subgrades and all the empty space, but i suppose i am in the minority. Now their label looks like a cross between GMA and SGC. Not a huge fan.

Kudos to them, though. Now they'll have thousands of people rifling through their "old" green label 9.5's that they probably just received a few weeks ago, and for *just* $5 more for each card + shipping, they get shiny new 10's!

These TPG's are such a racket.

[Casey2296]

Old school holder.
_

[insidethewrapper]

It doesn't appear that their grading system has qualifiers, is this correct ? I don't like qualifiers, the card should just be down graded due to being off-centered, etc.

I hate 8 (OC ) etc. If it's off-centered that much it isn't an 8 in my opinion.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

It doesn't appear that their grading system has qualifiers, is this correct ? I don't like qualifiers, the card should just be down graded due to being off-centered, etc.

I hate 8 (OC ) etc. If it's off-centered that much it isn't an 8 in my opinion.

Correct they do not use qualifiers and as an additional agreeance, That is the single most annoying thing about PSA. To remove the single worst thing about the card and then grade it without that horrific flaw is simply fraud in my mind.

Even PSA states in their registry information that any qualifier is a 2 point deduction. So any 9 OC is simply a 7...but the hyperbolic excitement by sellers that it's a "1 Of 1" graded 9 OC and you can buy it for only the price of an 8.5 is nauseating.

[Oscar_Stanage]

it is a nice label, and I give them credit for making a change. But i'd prefer they were not 2 grades off from the pros.

I am starting to warm up to PSA. don't get me wrong, I am never waiting 10 months for a grade, but I have a bought a number of PSA slabs recently. I prefer the simplicity, correctly-sized label, and most important the thin slab. it makes a difference when you have a lot of graded cards. SGC - your slabs are too thick, wtf man.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Oscar_Stanage

it is a nice label, and I give them credit for making a change. But i'd prefer they were not 2 grades off from the pros.

I am starting to warm up to PSA. don't get me wrong, I am never waiting 10 months for a grade, but I have a bought a number of PSA slabs recently. I prefer the simplicity, correctly-sized label, and most important the thin slab. it makes a difference when you have a lot of graded cards. SGC - your slabs are too thick, wtf man.

I have not even looked at CSG cards that are for sale. Are you saying they are two grades off being too harsh? I have seen overly tight grading with SGC almost universally for the last year or so for sure and much less so with PSA, who presently seems like the realistic of the big TPG.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

I have not even looked at CSG cards that are for sale. Are you saying they are two grades off being too harsh? I have seen overly tight grading with SGC almost universally for the last year or so for sure and much less so with PSA, who presently seems like the realistic of the big TPG.

In my experience with a pretty small sample size, they are inaccurate. I bought an 8 online- when in-hand I knew it was not close to an 8. SGC gave it a 6. there were a few other less egregious instances. I am at the point in my collecting where I can eye-grade a card with precision. Since CSG just started, they do not have the excuse of "old label" or "graded under lesser standards". others have found them to be consistent, I am just one person.

[aconte]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I wonder how long the line for reholders is going to be?

Why throw good money after bad?

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Still prefer the look of the BVG holders myself.

[philliesfan]

When are the new holders available? I have a submission that should be at my post Office tomorrow and I sure hope thay are in the new slabs.
Thanks,
Bob

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Oscar_Stanage

In my experience with a pretty small sample size, they are inaccurate. I bought an 8 online- when in-hand I knew it was not close to an 8. SGC gave it a 6. there were a few other less egregious instances. I am at the point in my collecting where I can eye-grade a card with precision. Since CSG just started, they do not have the excuse of "old label" or "graded under lesser standards". others have found them to be consistent, I am just one person.

Sorry about that...Did you feel the card warranted the 6 grade? I was under the impression that CSG was relying very heavily on some form of AI to initially assess the card and the human grader simply is there to confirm it. I would expect in that scenario the card would be conservatively graded but guess not.

[hcv123]

This should have been done prior to launch. The fact that it wasn't, seems like they rushed to market before doing their due diligence.

That said - I agree - I like the appearance of the new holder MUCH better than the original.
That said - I didn't even realize they didn't include the back and factory #'s on T206
I agree with the previous post - most of the grades I have seen (not many) were sub-par to SGC or PSA.
Definitely no wide market acceptance yet. IN the sea of graded cards - 750K just doesn't seem like emany?

I was truly rooting for some "healthy competition" for the other companies, but believe CSG has a LONG way to go before getting there - at least the new holder is progress!

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by hcv123

This should have been done prior to launch. The fact that it wasn't, seems like they rushed to market before doing their due diligence.

That said - I agree - I like the appearance of the new holder MUCH better than the original.
That said - I didn't even realize they didn't include the back and factory #'s on T206
I agree with the previous post - most of the grades I have seen (not many) were sub-par to SGC or PSA.
Definitely no wide market acceptance yet. IN the sea of graded cards - 750K just doesn't seem like emany?

I was truly rooting for some "healthy competition" for the other companies, but believe CSG has a LONG way to go before getting there - at least the new holder is progress!

I couldn't agree more, hubris at it best.