Sadahara Oh

[Snapolit1]

In a time where people are loading up on international stars like Pele and other soccer players, always seems to me that there is very muted hobby interest or demand for Oh cards. I can’t say I’ve recall more than one or two threads on him on this page. Anyone have a theory? Or want to tell me I’m wrong? Seems like a pretty huge figure in the 20th century.

[jb67]

No insight. But this is my one and only card of him.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

In a time where people are loading up on international stars like Pele and other soccer players, always seems to me that there is very muted hobby interest or demand for Oh cards. I can’t say I’ve recall more than one or two threads on him on this page. Anyone have a theory? Or want to tell me I’m wrong? Seems like a pretty huge figure in the 20th century.

I think it's because of the lack of crossover the NPB had with the Majors until the 90's really. Soccer is an international game, much more so than baseball. What I mean by that is, with soccer you have players moving leagues, pretty often, and while the styles of play in each league do vary a little bit (For an example the Italian Serie A has always been a league more focused on Defensive tactics and ball possession as opposed to the English Premier League) The game transfers well. It's more or less agreed upon that the best teams in each of the respective highest divisions of soccer, are at a minimum, on par with one another.

Furthermore Pele is universally known. Soccer being as global as it is, plus the fact that legends like Pele, Cruyff, and Beckenbauer all had stints here in the United States, during the short lived North American Soccer League. I also think that Soccer, being as global as it is, naturally retains more popularity. The World Cup is absolutely massive, hell so is the Eurocup, it also becomes a way for people whose ancestors were from other parts of the world to come together and share a common interest. The section of New York I live in for example, is still filled with prominently the descendants of Italian American Immigrants (Myself included) who were going absolutely wild when Italy defeated England in the Eurocup.

Oh, on the other hand, very well known by diehard baseball historians or fans of the Nippon League, but other than that, there's very little crossover. The average baseball fan, that occasionally watches a game or that's not too deep into the history of our sport, doesn't know who Oh is, or if they do, its very surface level knowledge. They might know he's the Japanese Home Run King, that's about it, because it happened so long ago, and because Japanese Baseball wasn't really being covered over here. They'd defintely know who Ichiro is, because Ichiro transcended the NPB, he was able to come over to America and be just as good, if not better than he was in Japan.

I think I'm rambling at this point! I'll cut it off here, I hope that does a halfway decent job of explaining.

[nat]

I don't know why he doesn't get more attention. But Oh is totally awesome. Here's my attempt to calculate what Oh might have done had he played in the US (and related questions).

The cards were issued by Calbee, and were originally packaged with potato chips.

[Snapolit1]

That all makes sense. And I'm sure among many US collectors there is the belief that the Japanese leagues were far inferior in competition level to the American leagues, particularly decades ago, so people have a hard time weighing his achievements against players we've seen or read about extensively. But still, you could make the same argument about many Negro League players. Some amazing Negro League players, but the level of talent overall obviously not comparable.

Originally Posted by Seven

I think it's because of the lack of crossover the NPB had with the Majors until the 90's really. Soccer is an international game, much more so than baseball. What I mean by that is, with soccer you have players moving leagues, pretty often, and while the styles of play in each league do vary a little bit (For an example the Italian Serie A has always been a league more focused on Defensive tactics and ball possession as opposed to the English Premier League) The game transfers well. It's more or less agreed upon that the best teams in each of the respective highest divisions of soccer, are at a minimum, on par with one another.

Furthermore Pele is universally known. Soccer being as global as it is, plus the fact that legends like Pele, Cruyff, and Beckenbauer all had stints here in the United States, during the short lived North American Soccer League. I also think that Soccer, being as global as it is, naturally retains more popularity. The World Cup is absolutely massive, hell so is the Eurocup, it also becomes a way for people whose ancestors were from other parts of the world to come together and share a common interest. The section of New York I live in for example, is still filled with prominently the descendants of Italian American Immigrants (Myself included) who were going absolutely wild when Italy defeated England in the Eurocup.

Oh, on the other hand, very well known by diehard baseball historians or fans of the Nippon League, but other than that, there's very little crossover. The average baseball fan, that occasionally watches a game or that's not too deep into the history of our sport, doesn't know who Oh is, or if they do, its very surface level knowledge. They might know he's the Japanese Home Run King, that's about it, because it happened so long ago, and because Japanese Baseball wasn't really being covered over here. They'd defintely know who Ichiro is, because Ichiro transcended the NPB, he was able to come over to America and be just as good, if not better than he was in Japan.

I think I'm rambling at this point! I'll cut it off here, I hope that does a halfway decent job of explaining.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

In a time where people are loading up on international stars like Pele and other soccer players, always seems to me that there is very muted hobby interest or demand for Oh cards. I can’t say I’ve recall more than one or two threads on him on this page. Anyone have a theory? Or want to tell me I’m wrong? Seems like a pretty huge figure in the 20th century.

I actually disagree based on my own experience - I’ve been looking for an early Oh Menko card (‘59-‘61) on eBay for almost a year and haven’t found one in decent shape at a reasonable price. I think demand has gone up a lot recently.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ASF123

I actually disagree based on my own experience - I’ve been looking for an early Oh Menko card (‘59-‘61) on eBay for almost a year and haven’t found one in decent shape at a reasonable price. I think demand has gone up a lot recently.

No question they are tough to find.

[Casey2296]

Mr. Oh
_
1964 Fujiya Gum

[LuckyLarry]

I have a few Sadahara Oh cards

[LuckyLarry]

[prestigecollectibles]

The demand for Sadaharu Oh cards is definitely increasing. I have a few nice ones in my current auction.

Here is a link:
https://prestigecollectiblesauction....llery?size=250

[Bill77]

Just bought this one. I like the picture and the listing was good too. https://www.ebay.com/itm/12497772102...rdt=true&rt=nc

[Frankish]

I've definitely noticed a significant increase in interest/price in Oh cards. Whether or not interest and prices are at the level one would expect is another matter. Personally, I think that often they are still a bargain relative to other players I find similarly interesting.

The main thing I think keeping prices lower (other than the relative obscurity of vintage Japanese baseball players in the US market) is the complicated nature of his rookie cards. I collect his rookie cards and still don't know exactly how many different RCs are out there. 60? 80? 100?

Many of these cards are extremely rare by an US standard (some are only known copies, a surprising number have only 5 or 10 or 25 known copies) but having so many of them muddies the water in terms of focus and demand. In my experience, real price escalation starts once things can be commodified and plugged into a hierarchy (like what happened once collecting focus shifted to graded cards and even registries). The card at the top of that hierarchy benefits the most (52T Mantle for example). It seems unlikely that will happen any time soon with Japanese cards. In fact, I'm surprised at the generally weak correlation between scarcity and price even today and take advantage of it to focus on rare issues myself. And it seem only recently have rookie cards started to command the premium one would normally expect (except maybe in Oh's case).

Anyway, without some agreed upon premier or iconic rookie card, I don't think we will ever see explosive growth. The 1959 Hoshi Gangu card seemed to occupy that place for a while. A number of higher grade cards were available in America, a bunch were graded, it's a distinctive card...it even has three versions of increasing scarcity (white, gold, and red bordered). Still, there so many other RCs and (to my mind) many more attractive ones.

Oh started playing in 1959, so that's the year of his rookie cards. But if somehow, magically, a late 1958 issue showed up of him in Giants uniform (even if before the season began), I think its price would clearly go through the roof in terms of price. This will never happen, but I think it demonstrated how the current situation with his rookie cards holds back the value.

Originally Posted by ASF123

I actually disagree based on my own experience - I’ve been looking for an early Oh Menko card (‘59-‘61) on eBay for almost a year and haven’t found one in decent shape at a reasonable price. I think demand has gone up a lot recently.

I think this is particularly true of graded cards. There aren't that many graded. US collectors appreciate graded cards. Grading prices and options to get new ones graded are currently very limited. And in just another case of moving goalposts, some TPGs are now grading them oddly when they do (I'm looking at you SGC).

[ASF123]

The main thing I think keeping prices lower (other than the relative obscurity of vintage Japanese baseball players in the US market) is the complicated nature of his rookie cards. I collect his rookie cards and still don't know exactly how many different RCs are out there. 60? 80? 100?

Good point - also maybe just the basic difficulty in determining what year a particular card is from if you’re not an expert in Japanese cards? VCP doesn’t even have photos for many (most?) of his earlier card listings. I come across raw cards and it takes a while to figure out when they’re from, if it’s even possible.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Quite a few are listed on ebay but they rarely show up in an auction and mostly are out at BIN at truly absurd prices.

[Snapolit1]

At an auction last weekend I bought a autographed copy of Oh’s autobiography A Zen Way of Baseball for $110. I would prob pay more than that for an autograph copy of a biography of Jose Reyes.

[tedzan]

Sadaharu Oh


. .


TED Z
.

[Frankish]

While I have a few high grade Oh rookie cards (Hoshi Gangu white and gold bordered and the upper left glove dark image version), I much prefer "collector" grade cards in general. Not only are they easier to find (although not necessarily easy), but I love how they look in my binders.

Here are two of my favorite raw beaters and two favorite low-end graded cards....

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Frankish

While I have a few high grade Oh rookie cards (Hoshi Gangu white and gold bordered and the upper left glove dark image version), I much prefer "collector" grade cards in general. Not only are they easier to find (although not necessarily easy), but I love how they look in my binders.

Here are two of my favorite raw beaters and two favorite low-end graded cards....

Very cool stuff.

[Frankish]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Very cool stuff.

Thanks. It's not often I get a chance to share cards except with other Japanese baseball collectors.

The two gum cards (1960 Lili top left and 1960 Jintan bottom right) are scarce, but you definitely see them around.

The bottom left card is from the uncommon but not rare 1959 Marumatsu scoreboard back set (JCM 32e) but is quite unusual with the purple bat. As far as I can tell, it is the only known copy in the hobby.

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Quite a few are listed on ebay but they rarely show up in an auction and mostly are out at BIN at truly absurd prices.

This thread reminded me that Love of the Game has an Oh card in their current preview. It is one of the 13 featured lots of the auction, so they're giving it the royal treatment.

[nat]

Originally Posted by Frankish

Thanks. It's not often I get a chance to share cards except with other Japanese baseball collectors.

The two gum cards (1960 Lili top left and 1960 Jintan bottom right) are scarce, but you definitely see them around.

The bottom left card is from the uncommon but not rare 1959 Marumatsu scoreboard back set (JCM 32e) but is quite unusual with the purple bat. As far as I can tell, it is the only known copy in the hobby.

What set is the one with Nagashima from?

[Frankish]

Originally Posted by nat

What set is the one with Nagashima from?

I believe it is also from JCM 32e, the card listed in the 2019 guide as #1.3. However, I'm still looking for another copy of that card so I can confirm it (unfortunately the menko number on that set are no help identifying the cards). It also has the first prize stamp on the back...which really does nothing for values, but personally I always like the prize cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not mine, but one of the coolest cards I have ever seen.

[Frankish]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not mine, but one of the coolest cards I have ever seen.

I like that card, too. There's a beat up copy in my collection but the one you posted is very clean. Is that the one on ebay now? That seller has some very aspirational prices! He has an OC Hoshi Gangu for $150K or something like that....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Frankish

I like that card, too. There's a beat up copy in my collection but the one you posted is very clean. Is that the one on ebay now? That seller has some very aspirational prices! He has an OC Hoshi Gangu for $150K or something like that....

Exactly.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think it's because of the lack of crossover the NPB had with the Majors until the 90's really. Soccer is an international game, much more so than baseball. What I mean by that is, with soccer you have players moving leagues, pretty often, and while the styles of play in each league do vary a little bit (For an example the Italian Serie A has always been a league more focused on Defensive tactics and ball possession as opposed to the English Premier League) The game transfers well. It's more or less agreed upon that the best teams in each of the respective highest divisions of soccer, are at a minimum, on par with one another.

Furthermore Pele is universally known. Soccer being as global as it is, plus the fact that legends like Pele, Cruyff, and Beckenbauer all had stints here in the United States, during the short lived North American Soccer League. I also think that Soccer, being as global as it is, naturally retains more popularity. The World Cup is absolutely massive, hell so is the Eurocup, it also becomes a way for people whose ancestors were from other parts of the world to come together and share a common interest. The section of New York I live in for example, is still filled with prominently the descendants of Italian American Immigrants (Myself included) who were going absolutely wild when Italy defeated England in the Eurocup.

Ah, Pele ... universally known! And soccer, a global sport! Funny, funny, funny! Soccer cards have been around for a hundred years, if not longer, and you Americans didn't give a sh*t about them until recently.

[puckpaul]

Still dont give a shit about the soccer cards. OH would be cool, though. Or a coach Lasso card!