Halftone Print Line Question

[ls7plus]

I have long been intrigued with print lines on halftone printed cards. Take, for example, the 1916 M101-5 Babe Ruth, which sometimes but not others is seen with a light, seemingly perfectly horizontal light print line coming out from his left hip to the right border of the card. In addition, another similar line sometimes but not always appears at a level above his head to his left, from the right of the card to approximately its center. Some examples show the print line from the hip, but not the higher one. On the latter, the print line can be seen at varying levels in relation to but always near the left hip.

Are these print lines produced by something on the plate at the time of printing, such as a string, thread or hair, which is later absent in the process of subsequent printings? Or is there a defect in the plate, requiring the replacement of it?

For those of you who have some knowledge or expertise in halftone printing and variations such as these, please know that your response is greatly appreciated.

Highest regards always,

Larry

[drcy]

I'm not sure specifically what you are referring to with this card. However, these were ephemeral kids toys, and the makers didn't alway take the greatest care in image or printing quality. You will see errant lines, squiggles and dots in many early halftone cards, and newspaper and magazine pictures. Often from just doing an imperfect or quick-and-dirty job making the printing plates.

[steve B]

Most presses have guides to make sure the printed sheets stack neatly. if that guide drags over the paper it will create a line or drag mark.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

I have long been intrigued with print lines on halftone printed cards. Take, for example, the 1916 M101-5 Babe Ruth, which sometimes but not others is seen with a light, seemingly perfectly horizontal light print line coming out from his left hip to the right border of the card. In addition, another similar line sometimes but not always appears at a level above his head to his left, from the right of the card to approximately its center. Some examples show the print line from the hip, but not the higher one. On the latter, the print line can be seen at varying levels in relation to but always near the left hip.

Are these print lines produced by something on the plate at the time of printing, such as a string, thread or hair, which is later absent in the process of subsequent printings? Or is there a defect in the plate, requiring the replacement of it?

For those of you who have some knowledge or expertise in halftone printing and variations such as these, please know that your response is greatly appreciated.

Highest regards always,

Larry

Not sure of the answer but Steve's seems plausible. I would like to know definitively too. They are on quite a few Ruth's...

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by drcy

I'm not sure specifically what you are referring to with this card. However, these were ephemeral kids toys, and the makers didn't alway take the greatest care in image or printing quality. You will see errant lines, squiggles and dots in many early halftone cards, and newspaper and magazine pictures. Often from just doing an imperfect or quick-and-dirty job making the printing plates.

David, if you google "1916 M101-5 Babe Ruth PSA," and click on "APR" for sales prices realized, you will see one example of precisely the print lines I am talking about. Go through them until you see a NM 7 example, PSA#01564223, which has the light print line coming from the Babe's left hip (on the right side of the card), as well as a fainter but similar line, also on the right side of the card, at a level slightly above the Babe's head. Another example may be seen on ebay, where a PSA EX 5 example, PSA#30061785 is for sale (with an asking price of around $400,000, as I recall). While the same two print lines are visible on both, they both appear to have moved up towards the top of the card as compared to the NM7 example mentioned. I've also seen the same print lines on other examples of the M101-5 Babe, but it certainly is not always present.

Since you're the forensic guy (I've read your excellent publication, "Judging the Authenticity of Early Baseball Cards") I thought you would be the best one to call on. If you have the time to view these, please let me know what you think. Could there have been something on the plate that was there just temporarily, blocking the transfer of ink to the card stock? Or a defect in the plate later remedied?

Thanks in advance for your opinion,

Larry

[steve B]

Ok with pictures this time.

Here's an old press, from about the time the cards were printed. This one is very typical of both lithography and letterpress presses of the time. This one is probably letterpress.



Here's the same image with some poorly drawn arrows pointing out the guide fingers/rollers that keep the paper organized in the outfeed area.



Here's a video showing a couple different presses running, including one similar to the one in the pictures that has fewer rollers/guides, but does have the running belts and a different set of guides.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=28826

With the ink wet, any of those guides can drag on the printed area causing a line.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by steve B

Ok with pictures this time.

Here's an old press, from about the time the cards were printed. This one is very typical of both lithography and letterpress presses of the time. This one is probably letterpress.



Here's the same image with some poorly drawn arrows pointing out the guide fingers/rollers that keep the paper organized in the outfeed area.



Here's a video showing a couple different presses running, including one similar to the one in the pictures that has fewer rollers/guides, but does have the running belts and a different set of guides.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=28826

With the ink wet, any of those guides can drag on the printed area causing a line.

Wow, Steve, I think you solved it! Makes complete sense! Your resourcefulness is incredible. Let's see if I can attach the image I was referring to from PSA (old school that I am, I've never done this before).1916 M101-5 April, 2018 Heritage Auction Babe Ruth provence card.jpg You have to look a bit harder to see the higher line. I'm thinking that this was a limited event as to time and number of cards affected--is that consistent with your thinking?

With high regard,

Larry

[samosa4u]

I love discussions like this!

I remember when I spent months looking at Aaron rookies. I saw so many that had nasty horizontal lines across the front. I don't think any of these lines were caused by the printing plates. I think it was something else in the printing press that did this - maybe the rollers?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

Wow, Steve, I think you solved it! Makes complete sense! Your resourcefulness is incredible. Let's see if I can attach the image I was referring to from PSA (old school that I am, I've never done this before).Attachment 415668 You have to look a bit harder to see the higher line. I'm thinking that this was a limited event as to time and number of cards affected--is that consistent with your thinking?

With high regard,

Larry

Thanks Larry,

Drag marks can be transient. The guides can be adjusted, and sometimes it's a matter of a roller skidding on too much ink.
The presses at the place I worked were a little more modern, and the guides pretty much only dragged if the outfeed stack was too high. (and the pressmen caught it and those sheets got tossed. )

Those lines are interesting ones. The other example I found (Didn't look all that hard) only has one line, and a very slight line in a different spot. That would point to a transient event instead of a few other options.

drags usually have a lot of disturbed ink at the edges of them, and these don't. They also usually cross borders and again these don't.
The other options would be damage to the plate, or damage to the negative.
Plate damage looks different depending on the process.
On Offset lithography, it's usually a colored line where the scratch is.
On typography, it can be a white line like we see here.
But plate damage on either is very consistent, and affects every sheet after the damage the same way.

Since there aren't many with the marks, and the marks are uncolored lines either they were typographed, and the damage happened very late, or the negative was damaged before a new plate was made.
With two different ones, neither of those seems likely.

I suspect the culprit is the outfeed belts you can see in the video. The sheet probably touched just where the belts went around the pulleys, and only very briefly. I suspect that happened up on the press end, but explaining why is messy enough I'd have to draw a couple sketches.