Advice on Trade gone bad - kind of.

[Jcosta19]

Hi All.

I was hoping for some advice on how to you all might handle an issue with a recent trade I am having.

I had an item on ebay, net54 and elsewhere. A nice professionally framed 1930s Five Star Whiskey Advertising Scoreboard.

A gentleman contacted me about possible trades. For some background he is 72 has a large vintage sports memorabilia collection. He sent lots of pictures of possible trade options and we came to an agreement on a 1962 Roger Maris Nodder and 1960s Yankees Nodder and a 1990 Hartland Mickey Mantle Bronze Statue.

We shipped on the same day through USPS after agreeing to terms.

Unfortunately the Maris Nodder arrived with significant damage to neck and shoulder. See picture below.
It still displays ok, but obvious significant decrease in value.

Definitely wasnt damaged prior to shipping. Packing was ok, but not perfect obviously. There was no neck ring protection. The box had a big dent in 1 corner.

His item was recieved in the glass frame without damage.
He suggested I put an insurance claim for the damage and keep him in the loop. He was upset about the handling of the package and took no responsibility.

I agreed with him, packing wasnt the main cause and told him I'd do a claim, which I did with my private collectors insurance. They are going to reimburse me the estimated value.

I let him know about the claim, now he is requesting I send the Maris nodder back to him!

His point, which I understand to a degree is that I'm coming out ahead because I have a (damaged) nodder and the reimbursement.

My point is, we made a trade and he got the item I promised in perfect condition.

I am coming out slightly ahead, but at no fault of my own. If I send it back then he is coming out ahead.

Meanwhile was inconvenienced with the insurance claim. I pay a fair amount for this insurance personally for this very reason.

But he is very unhappy and calling me a scammer and dishonest, which I truly am not.

Am I crazy here and being selfish?

Should I offer him some kind of reconciliation, or just chalk it up to sour grapes?

Sorry for the long post, somewhat venting but also very much looking for advise.

Justin




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[mr2686]

If the reimbursement isn't coming out of his pocket, then he shouldn't have a say in the matter at all. If that's the case, just keep it and life goes on. You did nothing wrong.

[eliotdeutsch]

You do not need to return anything.
That is how insurance works.

Good luck.

[bnorth]

Avoid that person in the future. That is crazy that they are trying to scam you and calling you a scammer. They got their end of the trade you owe them nothing.

[Jcosta19]

Sorry here is a better look at the damage accidentally posted the same picture twice.

Glad to hear I'm not completely crazy. I try to avoid trades with people I dont know unless it's in person.
This reminds me of why.

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[Tony2311]

Originally Posted by mr2686

If the reimbursement isn't coming out of his pocket, then he shouldn't have a say in the matter at all. If that's the case, just keep it and life goes on. You did nothing wrong.

+1

[buymycards]

The damage was clearly his fault. If he had packaged it properly it wouldn't have been damaged. He could have initiated an insurance claim on his end through the Post Office, but it probably would have been denied because of the poor packaging.

With the Post Office, the damaged item is turned in, along with the packaging, when the insurance claim is filed. If the PO pays the claim, they keep the item for possible resale through the Mail Recovery Center in Atlanta.

I am in the minority, but if you were fully reimbursed, I think you should return the item, maybe minus a small fee to cover your time and the return postage.

[Jim65]

You don't owe him a damn thing. He took no responsibility for the damage and made you do all the work using the insurance that you paid for. Screw him.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by buymycards

The damage was clearly his fault. If he had packaged it properly it wouldn't have been damaged. He could have initiated an insurance claim on his end through the Post Office, but it probably would have been denied because of the poor packaging.

With the Post Office, the damaged item is turned in, along with the packaging, when the insurance claim is filed. If the PO pays the claim, they keep the item for possible resale through the Mail Recovery Center in Atlanta.

I am in the minority, but if you were fully reimbursed, I think you should return the item, maybe minus a small fee to cover your time and the return postage.

Why do you feel that way? That person didn't even step up and take responsibility for the broken item. Why should they be rewarded with a free item?

If that person would have taken responsibility and got the OP reimbursed for the broken item then they should get it back.

I would say the only "person" who should get it would be the OPs insurance company if they want it. Otherwise the OP should get it for their inconvenience.

Just my $.02



You don't owe him a damn thing. He took no responsibility for the damage and made you do all the work using the insurance that you paid for. Screw him.

^^This^^ All day, I was just trying to say it nicer.

[perezfan]

I never assume anything when it comes to shipping vintage Nodders. Regardless of the seller's level of experience, I always spell out exactly how to package and protect them. If they fail to pad the area between the neck and the head ridge, it will almost always turn out bad. These things are so damn fragile, and it kills me to see one that survived nearly 60 years get damaged due to carelessness. Enough to make a grown man cry...

That said, it is not incumbent on you to have to tell him how to package it. I do it simply to avoid disaster, but I'm sure 90% of sellers would consider me a pain in the ass. He should know better....

Ample padding inside and around the head rim
Then plenty of bubble wrap surrounding the entire doll
Then boxed up with peanuts or "filler" in the air space, to keep the doll from moving around in the box
Then double-boxed... so you have a box within a box

Sounds like he failed to do this, and also failed to file the Insurance Claim. You took decisive action, paid for the insurance, and owe him nothing. He got his item in return for what was promised, and is not entitled to anything further.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by mr2686

if the reimbursement isn't coming out of his pocket, then he shouldn't have a say in the matter at all. If that's the case, just keep it and life goes on. You did nothing wrong.

+100

[commishbob]

Okay, I'll pile on.

He got....100% of what was due him.

You got... something less than 100% plus compensation that didn't cost him a dime despite the fact he was likely responsible.

I'd turn the page and not look back.

[D. Bergin]

It's seriously f*#*ing ridiculous to be honest.

If I was the other guy I'd be on my hands and knees thanking you for having the initiative to make the claim and getting made whole because of it.

Otherwise it's coming out of MY pocket, or MY insurance company, or MY hassle to file all the paperwork, and hope and stress it all comes out ok, just to make you whole on the trade.

Sad thing is, this guy deep down, probably thinks he's right.

Logically, it's kind of insane.

[D. Bergin]

Maybe he wants you to ship it back to him, so then he can make a claim on the piece. I mean, at least then, it logically makes sense, even if it doesn't ethically, morally, or legally.

All speculative of course.

[perezfan]

Or repair and re-sell it. More speculation, but equally possible.

[ooo-ribay]

I completely agree with the majority.

Judging by the damage, that must have been some piss poor packaging.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by buymycards

The damage was clearly his fault. If he had packaged it properly it wouldn't have been damaged. He could have initiated an insurance claim on his end through the Post Office, but it probably would have been denied because of the poor packaging.

With the Post Office, the damaged item is turned in, along with the packaging, when the insurance claim is filed. If the PO pays the claim, they keep the item for possible resale through the Mail Recovery Center in Atlanta.

I am in the minority, but if you were fully reimbursed, I think you should return the item, maybe minus a small fee to cover your time and the return postage.

Rick, I see nothing in the original post that suggests the old gentleman had any insurance coverage for his shipment to the OP. So, I don't understand how you can say, "He could have initiated an insurance claim on his end through the Post Office ..." In actuality, I suspect that the OP's private insurance was covering both shipments.

IMHO, the key takeaway from this situation is, when doing a trade, be sure to discuss and agree with your trading partner, before shipping anything, who will be responsible for damage or disappearance in transit.

I, too, agree with the majority.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by buymycards

The damage was clearly his fault. If he had packaged it properly it wouldn't have been damaged. He could have initiated an insurance claim on his end through the Post Office, but it probably would have been denied because of the poor packaging.

With the Post Office, the damaged item is turned in, along with the packaging, when the insurance claim is filed. If the PO pays the claim, they keep the item for possible resale through the Mail Recovery Center in Atlanta.

I am in the minority, but if you were fully reimbursed, I think you should return the item, maybe minus a small fee to cover your time and the return postage.

Have they changed things in the last few years?

A friend of mine had a phonograph damaged in shipping, and filed a claim with USPS. He had to get an estimate for the repairs, and they paid for the repairs. They wanted to see the item and packing, but didn't need to take it.

I'm a bit surprised the insurance paid the entire value, I'd think the difference between the damaged and undamaged value would be what they'd pay.

[Jcosta19]

Thanks for all your opinions.

I'll clarify a few points in case it changes anyone's view.

He did purchase insurance through USPS $400 for the combined package of the Maris and Yankee nodders which is why I informed him of the damage, to see if he wanted to make a claim, or offer some kind of solution.

He insisted I initiate the claim, and his exact words were if they tell you I need to do the claim, "I will warn you it is a very long process and often does not go your way". (Which I know to be true from experience, but just underscores to me that he had no investment in the process).

Since I had no confidence with the packing concern that a claim through USPS would be successful, and I pay for insurance for this very reason, I chose to use my insurance.

Before any of this happened, I did also buy some USPS insurance on my item that I was mailing because he insisted, but I also made him aware I would cover it through my personal insurance due to the fragile nature of my item (glass frame and thick card stock sign).






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[Thecafewha]

It’s now your item and your claim, you get to keep both.

If he would like to accept a return on the item and reimburse you then that would be a different matter (except too difficult because of multi item trade).

I avoid trades whenever possible.
Josh


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[Aquarian Sports Cards]

He's either trying to take advantage of you or not thinking clearly. His argument about you coming out ahead is hilarious. It would all be OK if HE comes out ahead. THis despite being the cause of the problem and absolutely no part of the solution. I almost wish you had told him that the insurance company took possession (which is their right) as that would've ended the discussion.

[Jcosta19]

I thought the same exact thing.

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[buymycards]

Originally Posted by steve B

Have they changed things in the last few years?

A friend of mine had a phonograph damaged in shipping, and filed a claim with USPS. He had to get an estimate for the repairs, and they paid for the repairs. They wanted to see the item and packing, but didn't need to take it.

I'm a bit surprised the insurance paid the entire value, I'd think the difference between the damaged and undamaged value would be what they'd pay.

The procedure is different if you want to repair the item. In that case, what you described is correct.

[bigfanNY]

100% your item your insurance. Only claim on the item is insurance companies. Yes you get a chipped noddler ( but really wants a chipped noddler). I once won a 1957 or 58 Braves WS noddler it was mint... before he shipped. Came with top cracked in half. He refunded me so I sent it back. He said I could keep it but I just couldn't look at it ...And difference is HE refunded me from HIS pocket.
Like I said on top YOUR item YOUR insurance..YOUR noddler.
Good luck
J

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by buymycards

The procedure is different if you want to repair the item. In that case, what you described is correct.

But they are never quite the same, and will never again be original (once repaired). So the decision to compensate for the doll in its entirety was the right one.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

It's seriously f*#*ing ridiculous to be honest.

If I was the other guy I'd be on my hands and knees thanking you for having the initiative to make the claim and getting made whole because of it.

Otherwise it's coming out of MY pocket, or MY insurance company, or MY hassle to file all the paperwork, and hope and stress it all comes out ok, just to make you whole on the trade.

Sad thing is, this guy deep down, probably thinks he's right.

Logically, it's kind of insane.

What he said.

Question - if you turned around and sold the nodder for twice what you figured it in the trade for is he entitled to a piece of that? I see this almost as the same situation - You did a trade. He got his end. You got yours although part of it was damaged. He wanted no part of making that right. You (luckily for you both had private insurance that covered both your asses). Tell him you'll put whatever part of the value of the nodder he believes he is entitled to toward your next insurance premium!!

[NiceDocter]

The person getting full value payment from the insurance company is NOT ahead as much as it may seem. Wait until the next insurance premium statement comes..... your rates could easily be going up since a claim was filed. Not that you shouldnt have done this, but there could still be costs involved with making a claim just like with any other insurance (home, auto, etc) . As for the seller..... tell him to pound sand (politely of course LOL)

[drcy]

My vote is you get to keep the nodder.

[slidekellyslide]

Is this guy a member of Net54?

[chalupacollects]

Your item, your insurance, your claim.... none of his business...especially when he bailed on taking responsibility...