PWCC Scandal and LOTG announcement

[ruth-gehrig]

I've been pretty much a fly on the wall throughout these PWCC net54 postings but surprised nobody has brought this up yet.....

In a LOTG upcoming auction announcement email I received Thursday the following link https://lotgauctions.blog/2019/06/05...1e006-29357557 stated.....

"Like many collectors, we are disturbed by the recent allegations of altered cards being sold in great quantities at auction, and we are grateful to those hobbyists who discovered the magnitude of the problem and brought it to light. *It is our hope that those responsible are prosecuted.

The hobby places a premium on cards in exceptional condition because the cards have ostensibly survived that way since their date of issue. *Cards that have developed flaws in condition over the years are typically discounted accordingly by the hobby. *It has long been our belief that any process designed to disguise or remove wear or degradation that has happened to a card should be called what it is: an*alteration. *We understand that some alterations are considered acceptable by many hobbyists, and that some alterations are virtually undetectable. *However, we still consider them alterations.

Love of the Game Auctions has long wished to conduct a reputable auction with reputable collectors and consignors. *As such, we reserve the right to refuse to approve bidders for any reason. *While our bidder and consignor lists are strictly confidential, *we have, since our inception, refused bidder and consignor privileges to those proven to be actively engaged in card alteration, or in actively facilitating fraud in the hobby. *It is important that we reiterate this commitment at this time.

Sadly, this latest round of allegations necessitates that we adjust our own policies to provide our customers with further assurance of our dedication to the hobby and its long-established standards. *Therefore, effective immediately, Love of the Game Auctions will institute the following procedures:

Any graded card valued over $500 will be reviewed carefully by LOTG under magnification, along with halogen and long-wave ultraviolet lighting. *Should we discover any issues with which we are uncomfortable, the card will be resubmitted to the grading company for review or returned to the consignor at their request.Any individual card sold in our auction will be scanned at high resolution (300 dpi or greater) and watermarked versions of those scans will be made available for download during the auction so that collectors can review the largest scans possible. *Should any hobbyist discover compelling evidence that a card in our auction has been altered, we will withdraw the card immediately.Love of the Game Auctions frequently receives consignments of ungraded cards that we feel are “fresh” to the hobby, either due to having never been graded or having been graded many years ago. *Cards of this nature that we submit for grading ourselves will be clearly marked in our auction, so that collectors are aware that they are bidding on a card that has been relatively uncirculated in the hobby.

While it is unfortunate that we have no choice but to add layers of scrutiny to the auction process due to the unethical behavior of others, we also feel it is the best thing to do for the hobby. *While we can never eliminate 100% of undisclosed alterations, and would never pledge to be able to catch them all or be mistake-free, we can establish procedures that help us identify and remove such items from our auction. *We hope the hobby can soon move past this regrettable phase.

[asphaltman]

Not real surprising with Al. Stand up guy and great auction house over the recent few years.

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

Not real surprising with Al. Stand up guy and great auction house over the recent few years.

+1

Al is as solid as they come. Great announcement.

[ruth-gehrig]

I wasnt surprised about this coming from LOTG.

Will other auction houses implement similar policies?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by ruth-gehrig

I've been pretty much a fly on the wall throughout these PWCC net54 postings but surprised nobody has brought this up yet.....

In a LOTG upcoming auction announcement email I received Thursday the following link https://lotgauctions.blog/2019/06/05...1e006-29357557 stated.....

"Like many collectors, we are disturbed by the recent allegations of altered cards being sold in great quantities at auction, and we are grateful to those hobbyists who discovered the magnitude of the problem and brought it to light. *It is our hope that those responsible are prosecuted.

The hobby places a premium on cards in exceptional condition because the cards have ostensibly survived that way since their date of issue. *Cards that have developed flaws in condition over the years are typically discounted accordingly by the hobby. *It has long been our belief that any process designed to disguise or remove wear or degradation that has happened to a card should be called what it is: an*alteration. *We understand that some alterations are considered acceptable by many hobbyists, and that some alterations are virtually undetectable. *However, we still consider them alterations.

Love of the Game Auctions has long wished to conduct a reputable auction with reputable collectors and consignors. *As such, we reserve the right to refuse to approve bidders for any reason. *While our bidder and consignor lists are strictly confidential, *we have, since our inception, refused bidder and consignor privileges to those proven to be actively engaged in card alteration, or in actively facilitating fraud in the hobby. *It is important that we reiterate this commitment at this time.

Sadly, this latest round of allegations necessitates that we adjust our own policies to provide our customers with further assurance of our dedication to the hobby and its long-established standards. *Therefore, effective immediately, Love of the Game Auctions will institute the following procedures:

Any graded card valued over $500 will be reviewed carefully by LOTG under magnification, along with halogen and long-wave ultraviolet lighting. *Should we discover any issues with which we are uncomfortable, the card will be resubmitted to the grading company for review or returned to the consignor at their request.Any individual card sold in our auction will be scanned at high resolution (300 dpi or greater) and watermarked versions of those scans will be made available for download during the auction so that collectors can review the largest scans possible. *Should any hobbyist discover compelling evidence that a card in our auction has been altered, we will withdraw the card immediately.Love of the Game Auctions frequently receives consignments of ungraded cards that we feel are “fresh” to the hobby, either due to having never been graded or having been graded many years ago. *Cards of this nature that we submit for grading ourselves will be clearly marked in our auction, so that collectors are aware that they are bidding on a card that has been relatively uncirculated in the hobby.

While it is unfortunate that we have no choice but to add layers of scrutiny to the auction process due to the unethical behavior of others, we also feel it is the best thing to do for the hobby. *While we can never eliminate 100% of undisclosed alterations, and would never pledge to be able to catch them all or be mistake-free, we can establish procedures that help us identify and remove such items from our auction. *We hope the hobby can soon move past this regrettable phase.

I saw this as well and really thought that this was a great way to start to build consumer confidence again. You all know I have none and am boycotting PSA & PWCC. I appreciate that Al is trying to get out front and show collectors the type of business he runs. I have never done business with Al and I am very sad about that.

Where PWCC may have had my consignment business before, when I knew very little. Now, I feel everything they touch and everything they do is dirty, dirty, dirty in every situation. There is no doubt in my mind that I will reach out to LOTG the minute I decide to sell my collection. Or if I'm gone, LOTG are the ones that will sell it for my family. I e-mailed him this much yesterday and there are notes in my files who to contact, who I trust.

I met Al when I called out 1 of autographs right here on this forum that was obviously phony and Al took it down immediately (in 1 minute) and then reached out to me & explained how it got by him. He didn't owe me that. He did it because that's the way he runs his business and those are the types of people I want to deal with PERIOD.

[frankrizzo29]

I hope all auction houses follow suit. It’s sad they have to do this, but I think it’s necessary given the recent Issues

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankrizzo29

I hope all auction houses follow suit. It’s sad they have to do this, but I think it’s necessary given the recent Issues

I hope you are right but I think many of them are outlets for card doctors. I don't think they could truthfully take this pledge. It would not surprise me if Gary already has lined up other outlets.

[Peter_Spaeth]

T206 Tim Jordan -- gain of 4. No, not a football call.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=110

[AGuinness]

Love three things in particular;
1. They thanked those who brought the scandal to light. No one else has, but the appreciation is deserved.
2. Squashing the “conservation” BS and calling it what it is, alterations.
3. Taking immediate steps to reassure customers and provide more transparency.

Amazing how the other statements so far have lacked any of these.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

Love three things in particular;
1. They thanked those who brought the scandal to light. No one else has, but the appreciation is deserved.
2. Squashing the “conservation” BS and calling it what it is, alterations.
3. Taking immediate steps to reassure customers and provide more transparency.

Amazing how the other statements so far have lacked any of these.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have dealt with Al before. I buy from his auctions (although not as much as I should). He is a stand up guy.

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I have dealt with Al before. I buy from his auctions (although not as much as I should). He is a stand up guy.

Add me to the list of former and future buyers from LOTG. I am now a bigger fan of this auction house than before the "scandal". I can't say that for the other two companies whose statements have been posted on this site.

[ValKehl]

Al C. is really good people, and LOTG is one of the very few auctions houses that I will leave max bids with and that I will consign to.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

T206 Tim Jordan -- gain of 4. No, not a football call.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=110

Whoa. No bueno. It gets worse every day.

[Yankees1964]

Al runs the most stand up operation in the hobby. He has been listed in my will as the one to liquidate my collection for my family for years. He is the only auction house I trust. The majority of my high end cards were bought at shows and from houses like Al's. If anything, perhaps this unfortunate mess will get this back to being a hobby and get those that want to scam easy money moved on to another category or product.

[68Hawk]

I met Al on a bus ride from the Chicago Sportscard convention (might have been a National) probably 15 years ago, and within a few dozen words knew the kind of man he is.
Since then only spoken a few times here and there electronically (he remembered our short meeting nearly 10 years after..) but told him a while back that if I ever let go of my collection, he'd be the guy I wanted to bring it to Auction.
Well, finally made that rather difficult decision and LOTG will reintroduce some things I've really enjoyed over very many years to the marketplace.
A man's word is his bond and Al walks through life that way. Only knows one way and will work VERY hard to make LOTG a place collectors can feel great going about what they love to do. The above statement he's made takes a confident step in that direction.

[Buythatcard]

Guys like Al give the hobby hope to survive. Met him several times. Always took the time out to chat.

Nice going, Al!!!

[Piratedogcardshows]

Positive step forward from one of my favorite Auction Houses. Great job Al!

[calvindog]

Somehow Al knew enough to not let Moser register for his auctions. PSA let Moser submit under his name for 20 years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Somehow Al knew enough to not let Moser register for his auctions. PSA let Moser submit under his name for 20 years.

And if we can ever get those records, that may well turn out to be a blessing in disguise; had he submitted through unsuspected sources there would be no hope of tracking his cards.

Over under on how many cards he submitted?

[calvindog]

Directly and through proxies?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Directly and through proxies?

Yes, total.

[Arazi4442]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes, total.

I wouldn't be shocked if we're talking high 4 figures, low 5 figures in terms of submissions.

Once you've got the beats down on the fraud you're committing, all you need are the raw materials and there's an endless supply of cards, customers, etc.

BTW, +1 to all the positive statements re: LOTGs release.

$c0tt Cl1nt0n

[charlietheexterminator]

Awesome job Al, good luck with the upcoming LOTG Auction

[dwinters]

Basically the announcement says we don’t trust any tpg. Would love to see auction houses do their own grading now by providing high res scans. Who really needs psa?

[toledo_mudhen]

Although I suspect that PSA will emerge unscathed as it appears the information is primarily circulating among the so very few of us on various forums.

One firm indicator would be to see those PSA turn around times start to get better.

Not holding my breath

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by dwinters

Basically the announcement says we don’t trust any tpg. Would love to see auction houses do their own grading now by providing high res scans. Who really needs psa?

I have thought this, too. I remember what is what was like buying raw cards out of catalogs and getting burned. What was described as NM turned out to be EX at best. However, that was 20 or so years ago. Think how far technology has advanced since then. Now we can see nice big, detailed scans. Can those scans be manipulated? Yes. But that is also the case when the card resides in a TPG slab.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by dwinters

Basically the announcement says we don’t trust any tpg. Would love to see auction houses do their own grading now by providing high res scans. Who really needs psa?

I agree as well...

Once it resides in the idiotic slab, we can no longer see the edges or side view of the card. I would strongly support a reputable auction house that advises on the authenticity of the card only, yet leaves it raw for us to assign our own grade, and enjoy free of bar codes and other distractions.

Edited to say that LOTG and REA are my auction houses of choice, for both consigning and buying.... Al and Brian are both men of integrity, and are best of class within the hobby!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I agree as well...

Once it resides in the idiotic slab, we can no longer see the edges or side view of the card. I would strongly support a reputable auction house that advises on the authenticity of the card only, yet leaves it raw for us to assign our own grade, and enjoy free of bar codes and other distractions.

Edited to say that LOTG and REA are my auction houses of choice, for both consigning and buying.... Al and Brian are both men of integrity, and are best of class within the hobby!

I've never quite understood how TPGs can decide whether they'll cross a card just based on looking it in a slab, but whatever.

[oldjudge]

Great job Al. In all fairness, it should be pointed out that REA has been doing something similar for years.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I agree as well...

Once it resides in the idiotic slab, we can no longer see the edges or side view of the card. I would strongly support a reputable auction house that advises on the authenticity of the card only, yet leaves it raw for us to assign our own grade, and enjoy free of bar codes and other distractions.

If you don't trust the TPG, why can't you just ignore the slab now and make your own judgement of the grade? I just don't see any advantage of not having the card graded. In most cases, I doubt you are actually going to hold the card in your hand before bidding so your still not going to see the edges of the card regardless of whether it is graded or not. If you win it, then you own it and can crack it out if you don't like the slab.

Regarding Al, I know I've said it before, but I can best describe how much I trust him by saying I would have no problem giving Al a key to my house and telling him to come and go as he wished regardless of if I was home.

DJ

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

If you don't trust the TPG, why can't you just ignore the slab now and make your own judgement of the grade? I just don't see any advantage of not having the card graded. In most cases, I doubt you are actually going to hold the card in your hand before bidding so your still not going to see the edges of the card regardless of whether it is graded or not. If you win it, then you own it and can crack it out if you don't like the slab.

Regarding Al, I know I've said it before, but I can best describe how much I trust him by saying I would have no problem giving Al a key to my house and telling him to come and go as he wished regardless of if I was home.

DJ

Hey I stored your DOLLS for MONTHS at no charge and then delivered them!

[ALR-bishop]

Al has spent the night at my house and I am happy to report nothing was missing when he left

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

If you don't trust the TPG, why can't you just ignore the slab now and make your own judgement of the grade? I just don't see any advantage of not having the card graded. In most cases, I doubt you are actually going to hold the card in your hand before bidding so your still not going to see the edges of the card regardless of whether it is graded or not. If you win it, then you own it and can crack it out if you don't like the slab.

Regarding Al, I know I've said it before, but I can best describe how much I trust him by saying I would have no problem giving Al a key to my house and telling him to come and go as he wished regardless of if I was home.

DJ

Never trust anyone with a username that starts with an “x”.
Nuff said.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by xplainer

Never trust anyone with a username that starts with an “x”.
Nuff said.

It starts with a silent e

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by drcy

It starts with a silent e

Mine too. .

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Al has spent the night at my house and I am happy to report nothing was missing when he left

Me too, other than some cheap beer.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by dwinters

Basically the announcement says we don’t trust any tpg. Would love to see auction houses do their own grading now by providing high res scans. Who really needs psa?

last summer al auctioned a photocopy of a 1952 topps Mantle in a frame. to his credit he canceled the sale and didn’t make the high bidder go through with the transaction. just like putting your trust blindly in a tpg is a mistake, so would assuming that every auction house owner always knows what he or she is selling.