Revisting RED CROSS (T215-1) set....show us some cards

[tedzan]

The RED CROSS (T215-1) set consists of 96 cards. It is comprised of a mixture of T206 subjects from the 350-only series....350/460 series....
460-only series....and, one subject from the 150/350 series [Mathewson (white cap)].


These cards were issued in 2 series. The 1st series of 48 (or 36) subjects in 1910. The 2nd series of 48 (or 60) subjects in the Spring of 1912.

The Red Cross cards were printed at American Lithographic. These cards were shipped to the Lorillard plant (Factory #10) in Jersey City (NJ).
There they were inserted into the Red Cross tobacco products. A large find of Red Cross cards occurred some years back in the Louisiana area.








RED CROSS..... 96 subjects

Ames (hands above head)
Baker
Ball Boston AL
Bender (trees)
Bender (no trees)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Byrne (Pittsburg)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Ed Collins (A's)
Conroy (bat)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Crawford (bat)
Cree
Davis Cleveland
Devore
Donlin (bat) Pittsburg
Doolan (fielding)

Dougherty (arm in air)
L. Doyle (bat)
L. Doyle (portrait)
Elberfeld (fielding)
Ford
Fromme
Griffith (bat) Washington
Hartsel Toledo
Herzog New York NL
Hoblitzel
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (hands at mouth) Cinci
Huggins (portrait) St Louis NL
Hummel
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Kelley
Konetchy (glove low)

Krause
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Latham
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Lord
Magee (bat)
Marquard (portrait)
Marquard (pitching)
Mathewson (white cap)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McGinnity
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Harry McIntyre Chicago NL
McLean St Louis NL
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Miller

Mike Mitchell Chicago NL
Mowrey St Louis NL
Mullin(bat)
Murphy (bat)
Murray (portrait)
Oakes St Louis NL
Oldring (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees)
Paskert
Pelty (vertical) Washington
Purtell
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Frank Smith Cincinnati
Speaker
Stahl (glove)

Steinfeldt (bat) St. Louis NL
Street (portrait) New York AL
Street (catching) New York AL
Sweeney (New York AL)
Tannehill (Chicago AL)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Warhop
Wheat
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wilson
Wiltse (pitching)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)
Cy Young (glove)

Teams in bold letters signify a different team from that of it's T206 counterpart (due to trades).

TRADES....circa 1909 - Summer 1912 that are reflected on these T215-1 cards.

Neal Ball.......................from Cleveland to Boston AL on June 25, 1912
Bobby Byrne.................from St Louis NL to Pittsburg on Aug 19, 1909
Harry Davis...................from Phila. A's to Cleveland 1912
Mike Donlin...................from Boston NL to Pittsburg on February 17, 1912
Clark Griffith.................signed a contract to manage Washington in Oct 1911
Topsy Hartsel................signed by Toledo (A A) in the Fall of 1911
Buck Herzog..................from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911
Miller Huggins (port).......from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Harry McIntyre..............from Brooklyn to Chicago NL on April 13, 1910
Matty McIntyre..............from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911
Mike Mowrey.................from Cinci to St Louis NL on August 22, 1909
Rebel Oakes..................from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Frank Smith..................from Boston AL to Cinci on May 11, 1911
Harry Steinfeldt............1912 Spring training tryout with St Louis NL
Gabby Street................from Washington to New York AL on Feb 17, 1912


This RED CROSS checklist is still a work in progress; therefore, I would appreciate any updates to it. Especially, I am looking for more team
changes....that are different from the original T206 captions.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Sean]

Hi Ted, I have a couple questions. I thought that the Red Cross Street was the catching version. Also, you left out Bresnahan batting. I don't own one, but Steve H. sent me a scan of his Bresnahan. I'll try to find it.

[Sean]

Ted, I sent the scans of Bresnahan to your email. Let me know if you didn't receive them.

[tedzan]

Sean

The Bresnahan you are referring to is a T215-2 (note the Blue lettering in its caption).


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[ValKehl]

Ted, I have long wondered if the T215-1 of Johnson (pitching) really exists. I have never seen an example in all my years of collecting WaJo cards, and there aren't any listed in the pop reports. Here's a T215-1 of Griffith for ya:

[brass_rat]

Type 1 examples of Street exist in both the catching pose and the portrait. Both have the N.Y. Amer. caption.

A few other adjustments/suggestions to the checklist as well as my own questions: (I really wanted to toss in some Type 2 commentary, but I tried hard to refrain.)
If any of this seems wrong, please let me know, and I'll go back and double-check. (Ted, if you need any of the scans I list below, just let me know.)

* Neal Ball is Cleveland for Type 1.

* Bender is confirmed with trees. I do have "no trees" on my checklist, but I don't have a scan to support it.

* I do have Bridwell (portrait, cap) listed on the Type 1 checklist as Boston Nat'l, but I don't have a scan to support it.

* Byrne is Pittsburg on the Type 1.

* Chance is the batting pose, Chicago Nat'l for the Type 1.

* Chase (trophy) is N.Y. Amer. for the Type 1.

* I do have Harry Krause (Phila. Amer., pitching) on the Type 1 checklist, but I don't have a scan.

* I do have Tommy Leach (Pittsburg, bending over) on the Type 1 checklist, but I don't have a scan.

* Harry Lord is Chicago Amer.

* I only have Harry McIntyre listed (and confirmed) with "Chicago Nat'l" caption in the "Brooklyn & Chicago" pose. (I have the "Bkln. and Chicago Nat'l" caption as being on the T215 Pirate version.)

* I don't have the following players on my Type 1 checklist (although they are on either the Type 2 and/or Pirate checklists). Does anybody have scans?
Brown
Dubuc
Evers
Kelly
Matty McIntyre
McLean
Mitchell
Mowrey
Oldring
Purtell

* I haven't confirmed with a scan, but I have Pelty (vertical) listed as St. Louis Amer. on the Type 1.

* I have Frank Smith listed as having both Cincinnati and Montreal team captions in Type 1, but I do not have scans to support them.

* I have Tinker (Chicago Nat'l) listed as both "bat on shoulder" (confirmed scan) and "bat off shoulder" (no scan).

Thanks,
Steve

[ccre]

This has got to me one of my favorite sets. Unfortunately just have one.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Ted, I have long wondered if the T215-1 of Johnson (pitching) really exists. I have never seen an example in all my years of collecting WaJo cards, and there aren't any listed in the pop reports. Here's a T215-1 of Griffith for ya:

Hi Val

Last September you posted this in one of my threads......

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Thanks to another Net54 member, I have now seen confirmation that a T215-1 card of WaJo does currently exist.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

Hi Steve (brass_rat)

Thanks very much for all the information that you have provided.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[ValKehl]

Ted, thanks for jogging my absolutely pathetic memory. Yes, I did learn of the existence of the T215 WaJo card last summer. It is so frustrating to have a terrible memory. In fact, I find that I am more likely to remember something that happened 50 years ago than something that happened 5 months ago. Any of you old farts like me that have a good memory should consider yourselves very fortunate!

[calvindog]

[tedzan]

Hey guys

I've received several emails providing team info on these T215-1 cards; and, I appreciate all this.
However, some of the inputs are T215-2 cards. These have Blue captions. We only want Red Cross cards with Brown captions.
Thanks guys.


.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Jobu]

Hi Ted,

Murray's caption remains unchanged.

Do you have any details on the Louisiana find? I know that the only Red Cross T207s that have been found have been from the New Orleans area but I don't know any details about the T215 find that I sometimes hear referenced. Thanks!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Sean

The Bresnahan you are referring to is a T215-2 (note the Blue lettering in its caption).


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

You're right Ted, my mistake.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

Type 1 examples of Street exist in both the catching pose and the portrait. Both have the N.Y. Amer. caption.



Thanks,
Steve

Hi Steve, and thanks for the info.

I have one question. How can the Gabby Streets have a N.Y. Amer. caption if they are Type-1? Street didn't play for NY until 1912. Or does this mean that the Type-1s were printed later than 1910? Perhaps there were multiple printings, as seems to have been the case with T215 Pirates?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Hi Steve, and thanks for the info.

I have one question. How can the Gabby Streets have a N.Y. Amer. caption if they are Type-1? Street didn't play for NY until 1912. Or does this mean that the Type-1s were printed later than 1910? Perhaps there were multiple printings, as seems to have been the case with T215 Pirates?

The T215-1 set was printed and issued in 2 series from 1910 thru 1912.

TRADES....circa 1909 - Summer 1912 that are reflected on these T215-1 cards.

Bobby Byrne..................from St Louis NL to Pittsburg on Aug 19, 1909
Harry Davis....................from Phila. A's to Cleveland 1912
Mike Donlin....................from Boston NL to Pittsburg on February 17, 1912
Clark Griffith..................signed a contract to manage Washington in Oct 1911
Topsy Hartsel.................signed by Toledo (A A) in the Fall of 1911
Buck Herzog...................from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911
Miller Huggins (port).......from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Harry McIntyre..............from Brooklyn to Chicago NL on April 13, 1910
Matty McIntyre..............from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911
Mike Mowrey.................from Cinci to St Louis NL on August 22, 1909
Rebel Oakes..................from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Frank Smith..................from Boston AL to Cinci on May 11, 1911
Harry Steinfeldt............1912 Spring training tryout with St Louis NL
Gabby Street................from Washington to New York AL on Feb 17, 1912



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

Type 1 examples of Street exist in both the catching pose and the portrait. Both have the N.Y. Amer. caption.

A few other adjustments/suggestions to the checklist as well as my own questions: (I really wanted to toss in some Type 2 commentary, but I tried hard to refrain.)
If any of this seems wrong, please let me know, and I'll go back and double-check. (Ted, if you need any of the scans I list below, just let me know.)

* Neal Ball is Cleveland for Type 1.

* Bender is confirmed with trees. I do have "no trees" on my checklist, but I don't have a scan to support it.

* I do have Bridwell (portrait, cap) listed on the Type 1 checklist as Boston Nat'l, but I don't have a scan to support it.

* Byrne is Pittsburg on the Type 1.

* Chance is the batting pose, Chicago Nat'l for the Type 1.

* Chase (trophy) is N.Y. Amer. for the Type 1.

* I do have Harry Krause (Phila. Amer., pitching) on the Type 1 checklist, but I don't have a scan.

* I do have Tommy Leach (Pittsburg, bending over) on the Type 1 checklist, but I don't have a scan.

* Harry Lord is Chicago Amer.

* I only have Harry McIntyre listed (and confirmed) with "Chicago Nat'l" caption in the "Brooklyn & Chicago" pose. (I have the "Bkln. and Chicago Nat'l" caption as being on the T215 Pirate version.)

* I don't have the following players on my Type 1 checklist (although they are on either the Type 2 and/or Pirate checklists). Does anybody have scans?
Brown
Dubuc
Evers
Kelly
Matty McIntyre
McLean
Mitchell
Mowrey
Oldring
Purtell

* I haven't confirmed with a scan, but I have Pelty (vertical) listed as St. Louis Amer. on the Type 1.

* I have Frank Smith listed as having both Cincinnati and Montreal team captions in Type 1, but I do not have scans to support them.

* I have Tinker (Chicago Nat'l) listed as both "bat on shoulder" (confirmed scan) and "bat off shoulder" (no scan).Thanks,
Steve

There is only one bat of in PSA's pop reports a PSA 2 and one bat on a
PSA 4 so maybe this one was corrected. There's also one SGC bat of in their
pop reports a 50.

T215 Red Cross Wrong Flip.jpg

[tedzan]

Hi Steve (brass_rat)

I am almost sure that Matty McIntyre is in the T215 "PIRATE" Tobacco set. But, this card does not appear to be in the Red Cross (T215-1) set.
I'm thinking, perhaps when American Litho printed the "PIRATE" set, they replaced Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) with Matty McIntyre.

Whatever, do you have any information on this matter ?

Originally Posted by tedzan

The T215-1 set was printed and issued in 2 series from 1910 thru 1912.

TRADES....circa 1909 - Summer 1912 that are reflected on these T215-1 cards.


Neal Ball........................from Cleveland to Boston AL on June 25, 1912
Bobby Byrne..................from St Louis NL to Pittsburg on Aug 19, 1909
Harry Davis....................from Phila. A's to Cleveland 1912
Mike Donlin....................from Boston NL to Pittsburg on February 17, 1912
Clark Griffith..................signed a contract to manage Washington in Oct 1911
Topsy Hartsel.................signed by Toledo (A A) in the Fall of 1911
Buck Herzog...................from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911
Miller Huggins (port).......from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Harry McIntyre...............from Brooklyn to Chicago NL on April 13, 1910
Matty McIntyre............from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911
Mike Mowrey..................from Cinci to St Louis NL on August 22, 1909
Rebel Oakes...................from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Frank Smith...................from Boston AL to Cinci on May 11, 1911
Harry Steinfeldt.............1912 Spring training tryout with St Louis NL
Gabby Street.................from Washington to New York AL on Feb 17, 1912



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Steve (brass_rat)

I am almost sure that Matty McIntyre is in the T215 "PIRATE" Tobacco set. But, this card does not appear to be in the Red Cross (T215-1) set.
I'm thinking, perhaps when American Litho printed the "PIRATE" set, they replaced Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago) with Matty McIntyre.

Whatever, do you have any information on this matter ?

Hey Ted,

I made a mistake in typing -- I agree with you that Matty McIntyre is only on the T215 Pirate checklist and is not the T215 Type 1 checklist.

What I meant to type is that I only have Harry McIntyre with the "Chicago Nat'l" team caption on the Type 1 checklist. I do not have Harry McIntyre with the "Bkln. and Chicago Nat'l" team caption on the Type 1 checklist. (If anybody has a scan, I'd love to see it.)

(I believe that only the T215 Pirate version has the "Bkln. and Chicago Nat'l" team caption.)

Cheers,
Steve

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by Pat R

There is only one bat of in PSA's pop reports a PSA 2 and one bat on a
PSA 4 so maybe this one was corrected. There's also one SGC bat of in their
pop reports a 50.

Attachment 301400

Hi Patrick,

Yes -- that PSA 4 Tinker had its flip corrected to "Bat On Shoulder" prior to being sold on eBay last year.

Cheers,
Steve

[brass_rat]

Here are a few supporting examples:

Neal Ball with the Cleveland caption (the Type 2 is "Boston Amer.")
Harry Lord with "Chicago Amer."
Harry McIntyre with "Chicago Nat'l"

[Leon]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

Here are a few supporting examples:

Neal Ball with the Cleveland caption (the Type 2 is "Boston Amer.")
Harry Lord with "Chicago Amer."
Harry McIntyre with "Chicago Nat'l"

Great looking cards I just wish they didn't get so darned expensive. From my first collection.,..

[ValKehl]

Hey Leon, thanks again for trading Mr. Griffith to me back in 2008 - where does time go?!

[rainier2004]

I guess I'm off here. I thought the t215-2s were the pirate backs...did the rules change or something?

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

I guess I'm off here. I thought the t215-2s were the pirate backs...did the rules change or something?

T215-1 is Red Cross with brown name/team captions
T215-2 is Red Cross with blue name/team captions
T215 Pirate is the Pirate back... There's no subset number associated with it.

[tedzan]

Steven

The T215-2 Red Cross set was printed and issued circa 1912 - 1914. These cards are distinguished from the T215-1 cards by the Blue lettering in their captions.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[tedzan]

The T215-1 set comprises of a combination of the T206's....350-only....350/460....460-only series subjects.
And, the Mathewson (white cap) card from the 150/350 series.
The following lists the subjects from their respective T206 series......


150/350 series..... 1 subject

. .




350-only series..... 29 subjects

Bender (trees)
Byrne (St Louis NL)
Collins (A's)
Cree
Doolan (fielding)
Fromme
Hartsel
Hoblitzel
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Huggins (portrait)
Kelley
Krause
Lord
Marquard (portrait)
McGinnity
McLean
Miller
Mike Mitchell

Mowrey
Oakes
Paskert
Purtell
Quinn
Speaker
Street (portrait)
Warhop
Wilson


350/460 series...... 40 subjects

Ames (hands above head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis
Donlin (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
L. Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)

Magee (bat)
Mathewson (dark cap)
Harry McIntyre
Mullin(bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Pelty (vertical)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Frank Smith
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (New York AL)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wiltse (pitching)
Cy Young (glove)


460-only series...... 26 subjects

Ball (Cleveland)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (batting)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
L. Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Herzog (Boston NL)
Hummel
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Oldring (bat)
Schaefer (Washington)

Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago AL)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)



TED Z

T206 Reference
.