Baseball rule - opinion

[stlcardsfan]

Did you all see Austin Jackson of the Indians catch at Fenway in the last week or two? If not, he robbed a home run and ended up falling over the fence in right center into the Red Sox bullpen. The guys on MLB deemed it the best web gem of the year so far. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCBCnHly59w

I have seen this happen several times before (notably in Fenway with the short fence) and in my humble opinion - this should be a home run. He caught the ball but did not keep the ball in the park. The ball ended up over the fence. Granted it did not touch the ground beyond the fence but Jackson surely did.

Since the ball and player ended up over the fence I say HR.

What say you?

[irv]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

Did you all see Austin Jackson of the Indians catch at Fenway in the last week or two? If not, he robbed a home run and ended up falling over the fence in right center into the Red Sox bullpen. The guys on MLB deemed it the best web gem of the year so far.

I have seen this happen several times before (notably in Fenway with the short fence) and in my humble opinion - this should be a home run. He caught the ball but did not keep the ball in the park. The ball ended up over the fence. Granted it did not touch the ground beyond the fence but Jackson surely did.

Since the ball and player ended up over the fence I say HR.

What say you?

I've never thought of that before, but that's an interesting take on things.

One thing I have never understood, but I guess it's based on the amount of space/land they have to utilize, is why there is not much of a standard when it comes to the size of baseball fields and fence heights?

All NHL ice surfaces, except for Olympic size ice rinks, are the same size, as I'm sure most NBA, NFL and soccer fields are too so why not baseball fields?

[chaddurbin]

the argument would be valid if OF jumps the wall and catches ball while standing outside the field of play. if he catches ball while in the field of play with his momentum carries him outside, it's the same principle as a football WR or an basketball player shooting a 3 pointer.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

Did you all see Austin Jackson of the Indians catch at Fenway in the last week or two? If not, he robbed a home run and ended up falling over the fence in right center into the Red Sox bullpen. The guys on MLB deemed it the best web gem of the year so far.

I have seen this happen several times before (notably in Fenway with the short fence) and in my humble opinion - this should be a home run. He caught the ball but did not keep the ball in the park. The ball ended up over the fence. Granted it did not touch the ground beyond the fence but Jackson surely did.

Since the ball and player ended up over the fence I say HR.

What say you?

I say out. The fielder was in play when he jumps, so he is in play until he lands in stands/bull pen. No different than a basketball player saving a ball going out of bounds. He is in bounds until he touches the ground out of bounds. Players only should not be allowed to jump into the stands/bull pen and then catch the ball.

[Butch7999]

Is the question "was this a hit or an out according to the rules?,"
or is the question "should the rules be written to specify that this was not an out?"

The situation is actually a shade ambiguous by the rule book, which doesn't quite address it specifically,
but comes closest in Rule 5.09:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
5.09 Making an Out
(a) (6.05) Retiring the Batter
A batter is out when:
(1) His fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder;

Rule 5.09 (a) (1) Comment (Rule 6.05 (a) Comment): A fielder
may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and
if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in
order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other
out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both
feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the
dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in
any other out-of-play area. Ball is in play, unless the fielder,
after making a legal catch, steps or falls into a dugout or other
out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead. Status of runners
shall be as described in Rule 5.06(b)(3)(C) Comment
(Rule 7.04(c) Comment).

A catch is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his
hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it; providing he
does not use his cap, protector, pocket or any other part of his uniform
in getting possession. It is not a catch, however, if simultaneously
or immediately following his contact with the ball, he collides
with a player, or with a wall, or if he falls down, and as a result of
such collision or falling, drops the ball.... In establishing the validity
of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that
he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball
is voluntary and intentional. If the fielder has made the catch and
drops the ball while in the act of making a throw following the catch,
the ball shall be adjudged to have been caught.

Catch Comment: A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by
any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder
before it touches the ground. Runners may leave their bases the
instant the first fielder touches the ball. A fielder may reach
over a fence, railing, rope or other line of demarcation to make
a catch. He may jump on top of a railing, or canvas that may be
in foul ground....
------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS factoid: NHL rinks were not standardized in size until the late 1990s.
Boston, Buffalo, and Pittsburgh were notable among NHL teams having
rinks slightly smaller or larger than the typical 200x85'.

[stlcardsfan]

No different than a basketball player saving a ball going out of bounds. He is in bounds until he touches the ground out of bounds.

Not sure I buy this - if a basketball player saves a ball he hits in back in-bounds. In this case the ball stays out of bounds (over the wall). It is equivalent to a basketball player keeping the ball in his possession after landing out of bounds. Jackson would have to throw it back to the RF before landing to "save it" similar to a basketball play.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by irv

I've never thought of that before, but that's an interesting take on things.

One thing I have never understood, but I guess it's based on the amount of space/land they have to utilize, is why there is not much of a standard when it comes to the size of baseball fields and fence heights?

All NHL ice surfaces, except for Olympic size ice rinks, are the same size, as I'm sure most NBA, NFL and soccer fields are too so why not baseball fields?

Do you know how boring that would be - uniform ballparks? Part of why I love baseball is that each ballpark is unique. I actually wish some parks would become even more unique - 450 ft. to CF and 345 down the lines. I love the uniqueness of Fenway and Comerica.

And Austin Jackson's catch is a very interesting debate. This was highly debated on Cleveland Sports Talk Radio last Wednesday. Fun stuff.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by irv

I've never thought of that before, but that's an interesting take on things.

One thing I have never understood, but I guess it's based on the amount of space/land they have to utilize, is why there is not much of a standard when it comes to the size of baseball fields and fence heights?

All NHL ice surfaces, except for Olympic size ice rinks, are the same size, as I'm sure most NBA, NFL and soccer fields are too so why not baseball fields?

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Do you know how boring that would be - uniform ballparks? Part of why I love baseball is that each ballpark is unique. I actually wish some parks would become even more unique - 450 ft. to CF and 345 down the lines. I love the uniqueness of Fenway and Comerica.

And Austin Jackson's catch is a very interesting debate. This was highly debated on Cleveland Sports Talk Radio last Wednesday. Fun stuff.

I thought about the standard size fields recently, but then realized it still wouldn't matter when the altitudes of the field aren't the same and there for more home runs could still be hit in certain ballparks (Colorado).

[JollyElm]

Standardized stadiums would be a nightmarish return to the 1970's. As Phil Trexler called them in his book, Ballparks Yesterday & Today, 'Cookie Cutters and Concrete Donuts.' Yuck!!!

[savedfrommyspokes]

I say "out" based on this catch.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQGmWv57klQ


Once the umpire verified he had held onto the ball, an out was immediately signaled.

[ajquigs]

I agree this is an interesting question. Since I was a kid I felt it should be a HR if the play isn't completed in the field of play.
Naturally, I realize that's not the case.
Of course, my simplified standard would also implicate landing in the stands in foul territory, although I admit those plays being called outs never bothered me much.

[stlcardsfan]

I agree in foul balls being caught with the player ending up in the stands should be an out. With the premise being the ball is caught "out of bounds" and of course remains out of bounds even with the player in the stands.

With Jackson's catch the ball is caught in the field of play and ends up over the wall. In the words of Kenny Mayne in his best Spanish accent, home rrrrrun.