Card Flippers List on NET54

[BleedinBlue]

Does anybody have a list of known card flippers here on NET54? After missing out on a T206 Speaker on the BST board the other day that I wanted to fill a hole in my collection, I was disappointed to see the card appear on eBay within a week for $200 more than the BST sales price.

I'm not claiming anything dishonest occurred here. But as an occasional seller through the BST I would prefer not to sell to known flippers.

Does anybody have a list I can put on my "blocked buyers" list?

[bnorth]

I would guess most members are flippers to some degree. I know if I see a card cheap I can resell for more I will buy it. I see nothing wrong with flippers as long as they don't lie to get the card. I know when someone begs for a lower price because it is their favorite player(or any BS story) then relists it for more I will never sell to them again.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[quinnsryche]

If someone buys a card for a set price, isn't it their's to do with what they please? I don't understand the OP's complaint. Sour grapes because you didn't get what you wanted? Not trying to start a fight but that's a ridiculous complaint. Are we all supposed to declare our intentions on every purchase from now on? Someone got something at a good price and is trying to make a profit. This is still The United States of America last I checked.

[markf31]

I think once you start down this road, you will find yourself getting into some really grey areas. For example how long must someone hold a card before they try to sell it, where you would no longer consider it a flip? To the OP, hi Brian, you obviously don't think a couple weeks is sufficient, so what if someone holds a card for 1 month before selling it, is that a long enough time? Or maybe 6 months would be sufficient? What about 1 year?

There are very few things that I purchase, that I would not resell if I net a profit by selling it. Sometimes that is measured in years, but sometimes that has been measured in weeks. Would I be one of those people on your banned list then?

And is this not the business model that each and every single card dealer out there utilizes? They buy cards cheap to sell for a profit.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I would guess most members are flippers to some degree. I know if I see a card cheap I can resell for more I will buy it. I see nothing wrong with flippers as long as they don't lie to get the card. I know when someone begs for a lower price because it is their favorite player(or any BS story) then relists it for more I will never sell to them again.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Yes, Ben, I guess I'm a flipper of some degree. However, my typical sale is a card that I have held for over five years.

So you can call me a tortoise flipper if you choose.

Hare flippers who list before their mail is delivered, particularly when some form of deceit or collusion is involved in their purchase from me (and this can happen here on good ol' Net 54), rankle me as well though. I doubt that this thread will generate a list though, but I have one.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I doubt that this thread will generate a list though, but I have one.

Honest Frank that story I told you to get a better price was true. That T206 Jim Scott is being displayed nicely at the place I instantly flipped it to.

[Tennis13]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

Does anybody have a list of known card flippers here on NET54? After missing out on a T206 Speaker on the BST board the other day that I wanted to fill a hole in my collection, I was disappointed to see the card appear on eBay within a week for $200 more than the BST sales price.

I'm not claiming anything dishonest occurred here. But as an occasional seller through the BST I would prefer not to sell to known flippers.

Does anybody have a list I can put on my "blocked buyers" list?

Flipper or not, once you own the card you can do whatever you please. It's certainly your right. The other day I saw beautiful 1933 Goudey cards I wanted, but the guy was on the shill bidder list, so I reluctantly passed on buying anything ever from him. To each their own I suppose.

I mean, if there is a single dealer on this site, they are a flipper. They find a buyer and a seller and play middle man and take the spread. I didn't know buying a card low and selling it high was a crime, whether it's 70 minutes or 70 years. I would be more worried about card burners, card cutters and card counterfeiters.

[BleedinBlue]

To all.

I fully accept the principals of capitalism. And I understand that every card purchased will at some point most likely be resold either by the buyer or their heirs. Collecting focuses change. Financial situations change. People upgrade. I get it.

All of which misses the point of my question. In this case a card was relisted in eBay within days of being offered here. Probably the same day it arrived in the mail. So clearly this is an opportunity for somebody to make a buck.

When I sell I PREFER that the buyer want the card, not the profit. I don't sell often. This is not a business for me. When I sell here I generally list for 10-20% below eBay to account for fees I won't be paying. When I get several I'll take it responses I'd prefer to skip over those looking to make a buck. It's an imperfect request.

As for the card in question, if the net54 seller had asked $100 more for the card I might own it today because there might not have been enough profit for a flipper to go after. He didn't. Somebody got a GREAT deal. And I continue to search for that card. I'll get it. Just not this week or from this eBay seller.

[pokerplyr80]

I don't think publicly calling out members for buying then reselling a card is appropriate at all. Reneging on a deal or committing some sort of fraud is one thing. I would have no problem creating a list of buyers or sellers who actually did something wrong in a transaction. This doesn't qualify in my opinion.

[martingale]

Guess I'm in the minority here but I agree with the OP.

This type of action goes against the spirit of the board, if everybody behaved like a 'flipper' then nobody would offer items in B/S/T at community friendly/generous prices and would go straight to eBay themselves to sell for maximum reward.

Not seeing the item currently up for sale in eBay so maybe the 'flipper' recognized he did something wrong and/or is feeling remorse?

[Tennis13]

Originally Posted by martingale

Guess I'm in the minority here but I agree with the OP.

This type of action goes against the spirit of the board, if everybody behaved like a 'flipper' then nobody would offer items in B/S/T at community friendly/generous prices and would go straight to eBay themselves to sell for maximum reward.

Not seeing the item currently up for sale in eBay so maybe the 'flipper' recognized he did something wrong and/or is feeling remorse?

Is "remorse" code for "angry wife"?

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by BleedinBlue

But as an occasional seller through the BST I would prefer not to sell to known flippers.

Does anybody have a list I can put on my "blocked buyers" list?

So what exactly is a "flipper" here? Somebody who buys and immediately lists it for a higher price than what he paid? What if the person decides to do this 6 months or a year down the line? Does that make him a flipper too?

[ajquigs]

Originally Posted by martingale

Guess I'm in the minority here but I agree with the OP.

This type of action goes against the spirit of the board, if everybody behaved like a 'flipper' then nobody would offer items in B/S/T at community friendly/generous prices and would go straight to eBay themselves to sell for maximum reward.

Not seeing the item currently up for sale in eBay so maybe the 'flipper' recognized he did something wrong and/or is feeling remorse?

I think you make a good point about the idea of a collecting community.

I wouldn't pretend to speak for the OP or anyone else, but I can understand a seller preferring to sell to a fellow collector within a loose community of collectors who, presumably, expects to keep the card for the foreseeable future.

[Gradedcardman]

Good luck. I would guess that most of us buy and sell to essentially fund part of our hobby collection. Certainly I do and have sold to many people who buy here and list on ebay.

[MR RAREBACK]

you can sell to me I wont flip

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

If someone buys a card for a set price, isn't it their's to do with what they please? I don't understand the OP's complaint.

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't think publicly calling out members for buying then reselling a card is appropriate at all. Reneging on a deal or committing some sort of fraud is one thing. I would have no problem creating a list of buyers or sellers who actually did something wrong in a transaction. This doesn't qualify in my opinion.

Fully in agreement with these statements. I believe it to be poor form to be selective about who you are selling to for the above reasons. If I buy card A, card A now belongs to me. Thus, wouldn't I have the privilege of doing whatever I would like to with it?
NJ Dunkin

[njdunkin1]

Gently just trying to face the facts. If you are unwilling to sell to "flippers", where do you draw the line? Who qualifies as a flipper?

[Ronnie73]

I can personally say that the T206 cards I buy are for my personal set and would only sell if I was upgrading. I sometimes mention that a card purchase is for my personal set. Sometimes I get a break on the price. As far as "card flippers" here on Net54, I've sold many of my lower grade duplicates to them at a very fair price. Yes, I do see those cards listed on ebay for even double what I sold it for but those cards could stay listed on ebay for a year before the right buyer comes along. The "card flipper" deserves the profit for the wait and the fees. I also buy from the flippers and always feel I get a fair price or better. I even get contacted by them when something comes along that they know I'm interested in. These "card flippers" I also refer to them as friends, collecting buddies, friendly competition, and lastly Net54 family. Everyone misses out on a great deal. Just take a look at successful sold listings on T206's on ebay. There are plenty of missed deals to keep kicking yourself over. It's a matter of the right place, right time kinda thing. Luckly Tris Speaker Piedmont is a common so another will come along at a fair price again at some point.

[orly57]

"As for the card in question, if the net54 seller had asked $100 more for the card I might own it today because there might not have been enough profit for a flipper to go after. He didn't. Somebody got a GREAT deal. And I continue to search for that card. I'll get it. Just not this week or from this eBay seller."

The guy who bought here and is selling on eBay is obviously a member. If you were willing to pay an extra $100, then offer it DIRECTLY TO HIM ON N54. He saves on ebay fees and makes a$100 profit. Not sure he would be too anxious to help you out after you started this thread, but it's worth a shot.

[aloondilana]

99% of the time a card is sold because the seller needs money.
So who gives a crap what the fate of the sold card is as long as you get the price you accepted.
I don't get this post, it's kind of comical to me.

The things are cardboard, a commodity.
Everything in life has a price, does it matter if it's 5 minutes after receiving the item in the mail or 5 years later?

There are enough things in this world to worry about.
Wondering what happens to a card after you sell it should not be one of them.

[pclpads]

Anytime I've sold a card and gotten a price I was happy with, I don't really care if the the new owner flips it or wipes his ass with it. It's his to do with as he wishes. This is akin to selling a '52T Mantle 20 years ago for a fraction of what one would sell for today, and now crying in your beer cuz you didn't get the same price. PLEASE!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Tennis13

Is "remorse" code for "angry wife"?

It was once in my case, though it was a girlfriend and not a wife. Just as angry, though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't think publicly calling out members for buying then reselling a card is appropriate at all. Reneging on a deal or committing some sort of fraud is one thing. I would have no problem creating a list of buyers or sellers who actually did something wrong in a transaction. This doesn't qualify in my opinion.

I agree. I really don't even understand the concern, if you want to avoid flippers, charge a price where someone can't flip. But if you get your price, who cares if the buyer keeps the card or flips it?

PS If you gave someone a break on price in reliance on a lie, then that's another matter.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by martingale

Guess I'm in the minority here but I agree with the OP.

This type of action goes against the spirit of the board, if everybody behaved like a 'flipper' then nobody would offer items in B/S/T at community friendly/generous prices and would go straight to eBay themselves to sell for maximum reward.

Not seeing the item currently up for sale in eBay so maybe the 'flipper' recognized he did something wrong and/or is feeling remorse?

+1
I have received some nice deals on this board while I have built my collection. Without fail, I am told by the seller (normally 70+ looking to pare down as the kids have no interest and he doesn't want to burden the wife) that they want to sell to a collector vs someone will just flip them. I have tried before to sell at a decent price looking to help in similar fashion. This has been usually met with additional haggling, someone claiming shipping issues and asking for a "partial refund" even after I offer to take it back 100% and I would pay shipping back, and then seeing the same cards on eBay at the price I could have charged anyway.

It is the reason why I now sit in hundreds of duplicates of stars that I would just as soon just let sit in the safe versus put them on here and deal with any of the above.

I am more than happy to help anyone with their collection and have given cards away on more than one occasion. And I would rather do that than have someone build their profit on my back. If that is the case, I would just as well post it on eBay or consign. To each their own and it probably goes back to my horror story at 8 years old and getting taken advantage of by a dealer but to say that I don't enjoy the horse trading component of the hobby is an understatement

[BleedinBlue]

Originally Posted by orly57

"As for the card in question, if the net54 seller had asked $100 more for the card I might own it today because there might not have been enough profit for a flipper to go after. He didn't. Somebody got a GREAT deal. And I continue to search for that card. I'll get it. Just not this week or from this eBay seller."

The guy who bought here and is selling on eBay is obviously a member. If you were willing to pay an extra $100, then offer it DIRECTLY TO HIM ON N54. He saves on ebay fees and makes a$100 profit. Not sure he would be too anxious to help you out after you started this thread, but it's worth a shot.

Why? Nobody has mentioned the name of the flipper in this thread. And only people who know which member uses that eBay account have that information. I know who it was and that's good enough for me.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

Fully in agreement with these statements. I believe it to be poor form to be selective about who you are selling to for the above reasons. If I buy card A, card A now belongs to me. Thus, wouldn't I have the privilege of doing whatever I would like to with it?
NJ Dunkin

You can do whatever you want with a card you purchase...correct. But why can't the OP DO THE SAME? If he currently owns card A, then doesn't he have a right to do WHAT HE CHOOSES WITH IT? And in this case, he's clearly stated he doesn't want to sell to quick flippers. So please let's stop with the hypocrisy.... If you "have the privilege of doing whatever" you would like with the cards you own, its funny that you have no problem judging that its "poor form to be selective about who you are selling to", when it comes to what someone ELSE wants to do with THEIR cards.

[bobbyw8469]

I don't mean no disrespect, but this whole thread is ridiculous. If you are going to blast people for making a profit on cards, you might as well go after Rob Lifson, Bill Mastro, Levi Bleam, yepbg, Lee Behrens, every Ebay seller on Ebay, Joe Orlando, etc......The list would be never ending.

The only problem I would agree with was if someone gave you a sob story "This is for my son.,.....I am handicapped.......He is my favorite player", etc, to the point that you are losing money on the card, and the person winds up "flipping" it as soon as it is "in hand". Other than that, what you are saying defeats the very purpose of being in the "business"....you might as well insist that all the card shows close down as well, and have Leon kill this forum.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

You can do whatever you want with a card you purchase...correct. But why can't the OP DO THE SAME? If he currently owns card A, then doesn't he have a right to do WHAT HE CHOOSES WITH IT? And in this case, he's clearly stated he doesn't want to sell to quick flippers. So please let's stop with the hypocrisy.... If you "have the privilege of doing whatever" you would like with the cards you own, its funny that you have no problem judging that its "poor form to be selective about who you are selling to", when it comes to what someone ELSE wants to do with THEIR cards.

I would prefer to sell only to Republicans. Can someone please identify them?

[jcc6252]

First of all, there are not that many flippable cards here on Net54, I check the BST daily. The sellers who do offer such seem to list again, so I assume they like their sales price and probably don't care who their buyer is. On the selling end, once you have a few deals where you lower the price for a buyer that says "It's going to my private collection" and find the card on eBay the next day, then you realize it's 50/50 (probably less) they mean it. I once read that members should not post in the monthly pick-up thread if they plan on selling quickly. Is that good enough for you?

PS OP: I do like your topic though

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by jcc6252

First of all, there are not that many flippable cards here on Net54, I check the BST daily. The sellers who do offer such seem to list again, so I assume they like their sales price and probably don't care who their buyer is. On the selling end, once you have a few deals where you lower the price for a buyer that says "It's going to my private collection" and find the card on eBay the next day, then you realize it's 50/50 (probably less) they mean it. I once read that members should not post in the monthly pick-up thread if they plan on selling quickly. Is that good enough for you?

PS OP: I do like your topic though

Thats true. You can often identify the flippable cards because you can see guys arguing over time stamps. With as much knowledge as this community has people usually know what a card they're selling is worth.

If anyone feels they can buy one of my cards and instantly make a profit on ebay feel free. I'm sure it's happened once or twice before. Like most members here there are a couple of cards I've sold that I'd love to buy back.

[x2drich2000]

I have no problem with anyone buying something on the board and then flipping it on Ebay, through an auction house, or even listing it for sale on the board again once they receive it. I know I've done it several times and I'm sure I'll do it again in the future.

Originally Posted by jcc6252

I once read that members should not post in the monthly pick-up thread if they plan on selling quickly.

This is one of my pet peeves. I feel the monthly pick up thread should be kept to cards you plan on keeping for your personal collection, not for items you are planning to resell 2 days later. Could you imagine what the pickup threads would be like if everyone posted everything they were planning to resell?

DJ

[ALR-bishop]

I had not considered flipping the cards I have bought from Levi

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

You can do whatever you want with a card you purchase...correct. But why can't the OP DO THE SAME? If he currently owns card A, then doesn't he have a right to do WHAT HE CHOOSES WITH IT? And in this case, he's clearly stated he doesn't want to sell to quick flippers. So please let's stop with the hypocrisy.... If you "have the privilege of doing whatever" you would like with the cards you own, its funny that you have no problem judging that its "poor form to be selective about who you are selling to", when it comes to what someone ELSE wants to do with THEIR cards.

I don't disagree. It's a two way street, undoubtedly. If you would like to share a civil conversation through PM, I would be happy to provide more details as to why I wrote my previous statement.
NJ Dunkin

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

I don't disagree. It's a two way street, undoubtedly. If you would like to share a civil conversation through PM, I would be happy to provide more details as to why I wrote my previous statement.
NJ Dunkin

Hey NJ, no need to PM. I was just trying to say let the guy sell to who he wants.
I apologize if it came off harsh, it was nothing personal. Take care.

Brent

[steve B]

The flipping thing doesn't bother me. I think many of us do it at least a little.

I don't sell much, especially older stuff where I don't have extra copies of a card. But with newer stuff I have extras, sometimes loads of them.

Having sold at Shows, flea markets, ebay, here, and directly to dealers, overall, and I know this will be unusual, I prefer selling to dealers. I've never had it be a difficult process. I have these cards can you use any of them? Yes, this one, but I can only pay x for it. Ok, that's fine.
If there's negotiation, it's very brief, "I can pay 50" "How about 55?" " No, I can only do 50" or "sure that's not much more."
OR sorry, I can't go that low. (Never actually happened, probably because most direct single card sales are likely almost pre-sold so the offer is decent.)

I also enjoy some selling to collectors, but some make the process as drawn out and difficult as possible. "your card is horrible, but I really want/ need it because......so I'll pay you 10%" Umm....no thanks.

I will say that almost every sale here has been the better sort.

Steve B

[RedsFan1941]

I for one am grateful to the net54 flippers who secure cards from major auctions and then offer the opportunity to buy them at a 30% markup within a week of the auction ending.

FLIPPERS FOREVER!!!!!!

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

I for one am grateful to the net54 flippers who secure cards from major auctions and then offer the opportunity to buy them at a 30% markup within a week of the auction ending.

FLIPPERS FOREVER!!!!!!

30% markup?? You underestimate how competitive the card market is. Try 5-10%.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

30% markup?? You underestimate how competitive the card market is. Try 5-10%.

Try looking at the BST a week or two after an REA or HEritage auction. 30% markups. Minimum.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

Try looking at the BST a week or two after an REA or HEritage auction. 30% markups. Minimum.

I am not seeing the issue.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

Try looking at the BST a week or two after an REA or HEritage auction. 30% markups. Minimum.

In the case where they put 10 grand into a 5-10 card lot and then cut it up and sell them individually, I have no issue (not that it matters if I have an issue - they can do as they please). Cash is king and if they put out the $ for the lot to pull out the white meat that they need and then sell off the rest to get their money back, more power to them and props to them for having the cash to buy bulk wholesale

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am not seeing the issue.

No issue at all. Though I would love to hear the rationale of paying $2k for a card in a major auction like REA and the. Offering it for sale for $3200 a week later on a board where 99 percent of the members likely saw it in the auction. Does it bother me? No. Am I curious if it works? You betcha.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

No issue at all. Though I would love to hear the rationale of paying $2k for a card in a major auction like REA and the. Offering it for sale for $3200 a week later on a board where 99 percent of the members likely saw it in the auction. Does it bother me? No. Am I curious if it works? You betcha.

People miss auctions. People didn't bid because they were chasing a different lot and would have bid more had they known they would lose the priority lot. People decide they want a card one week that they didn't want the prior week (I change my want list constantly). People come into some spending money. Who knows.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

People miss auctions. People didn't bid because they were chasing a different lot and would have bid more had they known they would lose the priority lot. People decide they want a card one week that they didn't want the prior week (I change my want list constantly). People come into some spending money. Who knows.

Makes sense. Thanks.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

No issue at all. Though I would love to hear the rationale of paying $2k for a card in a major auction like REA and the. Offering it for sale for $3200 a week later on a board where 99 percent of the members likely saw it in the auction. Does it bother me? No. Am I curious if it works? You betcha.

The rationale is easy, people will still buy it. It does work. Auctions are not perfect. Some items will go above market, others will go below market. If you can find the items that go below market, you can then sell them at market (or more) and make a profit. The real question is whether you have the desire to put the effort and time into finding those items that go below market price even if they are not what you personally collect.

DJ

[glynparson]

I hope every card I ever sell gets resold for more money than i sold it for. Why? Because those people will buy more cards. Just curious why you find it ok to sell i presume at a profit but its not ok for other people to do it? Or do you just have a problem with them trying to sell it immediately, and if that is the issue how long does one have to hold something before you think they should be allowed to sell it. PS I am a sometimes flipper feel free to block me, plenty of other places to buy from.

[Leon]

I will go as far as saying if I sell you something on the BST and you can sell it for more before I ship it to you, I will ship it to your buyer instead. I could care less, unless you tell a lie to get a better price (as Peter mentioned) .....

.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I agree. I really don't even understand the concern, if you want to avoid flippers, charge a price where someone can't flip. But if you get your price, who cares if the buyer keeps the card or flips it?

PS If you gave someone a break on price in reliance on a lie, then that's another matter.

I always make it clear I am buying for resale. Ask anyone who's turned down my offers!

[Republicaninmass]

I've found the opposite. Most are looking to sell over market.
However, if people don't want headaches and fees of ebay etc, a deal can be had.


Everyday there are thousands of people convinced a card"s value is going to go down, selling to thousands of people swearing the values are going up.

[Rich Falvo]

Unless you actually created the item, every card you ever sell is a flip. You had to have bought it or traded for it at some point in the past.

[Rich Klein]

Let me give you a "show equivalent" -- I will use Billy's name here but that is only because we know Leon here and not most of the local DFW

if I have a card at a show for $50 and Billy comes up to me and buys said card for $50 with the design of re-selling for a profit. I basically have two choices

1) Sell to Billy at MY Stated price and it's not my issue at that point. My only issue is to get my price which I have done so

2) Refuse to sell to Billy, which is my right, because I know if he is buying the card I am too cheap or he can get more. I'm not a big fan of this because IMHO it's morally wrong but I can do that if I wish

3) Somewhere in the middle depending on how you feel

Rich