1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 3 Available in Complete 1952 Topps Set Break at National

[Qcards]

I just want to let everyone know that I e-mailed Leighton regarding a refund and he told me it would be refunded by the end of the next business day and he was good to his word, I received a full refund last night.

[Snapolit1]

I received my refund as well.

[shammus]

Seems to me they're going to have to cancel this venture altogether - the people requesting refunds will tack onto the number of slots they're still needing to fill for completion and if they're still a couple hundred slots away from a sell-out before beginning to hand out refunds....

[irv]

When I first saw thread, I was excited, until I looked at the price per ticket!

My take is, the price was way too high. If they had of kept it reasonable, in the $50-$100 range, we likely wouldn't be having this conversation.

[1952boyntoncollector]

i amazed they sold as many tickets as they claimed with that price considering what cards were available that could be sold for more than the ticket price, however there would sure be some happy people depending on the results.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

FWIW, That card, the exact same one, was sold by PWCC on 7/7/16 for $23,600.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...p2047675.l2557

Guess I missed that one. Even so this break was announced shortly after that sale. If the price of the break was adjusted down by the same 25% margin that the value of the Mantle was overstated this may have went down differently, and probably would have still left them a nice profit.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by shammus

Just out of curiosity, what is the comment about a less than stellar reputation referring to?

He is probably referring to the VP's behavior on message boards. The VP has tarnished is own reputation for having a lack of integrity and bullying fellow collectors.

On 9-6 I posted, "Exactly why I sat this one out and have passed on many, many 1940 Superman cards from Just Collect." - A very simple and honest post that received a prompt and threatening PM from the VP.

The next day I posted a comment about the VP and decided to delete it because I thought maybe this wasn't worth getting into with a guy who behaves like a loose cannon. Since, I've noticed several other posts being edited I am wondering if he has been threatening them, too.

Just Collect's blog shares endless "finds" which come off as manufactured hyperbole to me. To buy a card off eBay is fine to complete a set for a break, but then to give an "approximate" value of 30% more in order to try to justify the price point, a lack of communication at the National, and seeing how difficult it was for customers to receive their promised "prompt" refund is borderline fraudulent, IMO.

But, I personally avoid Just Collect because of the comments their VP has made on collecting forums with memes making fun of mentally challenged people, mocking the Malaysian Airline tragedy, and comments about Rick Probstein's business practices and religion.

[JustCollectVP]

Patrick:

You are a liar. I advised you (and Bobby) that pointing out that you were thin skinned on CU and that you had a comment for everyone even though you may not have known about the topic was nothing to challenge my reputation over. If being dislike or pompous on a message board means someone has a questionable reputation or in not trustworthy, then many of us are condemned.

I stated in the PM that I would appreciate that you not take your personal dislike of me to the point of attacking the business that I work for. No threats. Nothing rude. I also pointed out that you and Bobby both complained about others contacting your work and how that was inappropriate. I find your latest actions and commentary rather hypocritical.

I don't like you. You don't like me. That's fine. But I don't find that as a reason to attack someone or question their ethics -- I guess that you do.

[bobbyw8469]

You are a liar.

I can only speak from my experiences and not Patrick's, but the bullying part is 100% true. So I would believe that Patrick IS NOT a liar.

[JustCollectVP]

Patrick:

Reading your post, I will address that I sent PMs to you and Bobby. Feel free to post them. There was nothing rude or threatening.

Please share with everyone where I posted ANYTHING about Rick or his religion. Provide one personable N54 that I sent a threatening PM to about this thread causing them to edit a post.

You're great at making up stories, pointing fingers and living for the drama. Most already probably see through it. For those that don't, I won't stand for you making false allegations to settle some score because your feelings were hurt.

I have called out many people over the years. I have also assisted many others. If you wish to get into a challenge of character, I'm standing tall and I'm right here. The ONLY thing you'll come up with will be a dozen or so people that don't like me because of disagreements that we've had. Tom S, Greg M and even Sean Bassik and I have had issues. I don't carry grudges and don't look to attack anyone because we don't see eye-to-eye. That would be a sad way to go through life.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by JustCollectVP

Patrick:

Reading your post, I will address that I sent PMs to you and Bobby. Feel free to post them. There was nothing rude or threatening.

Please share with everyone where I posted ANYTHING about Rick or his religion. Provide one personable N54 that I sent a threatening PM to about this thread causing them to edit a post.

You're great at making up stories, pointing fingers and living for the drama. Most already probably see through it. For those that don't, I won't stand for you making false allegations to settle some score because your feelings were hurt.

I have called out many people over the years. I have also assisted many others. If you wish to get into a challenge of character, I'm standing tall and I'm right here. The ONLY thing you'll come up with will be a dozen or so people that don't like me because of disagreements that we've had. Tom S, Greg M and even Sean Bassik and I have had issues. I don't carry grudges and don't look to attack anyone because we don't see eye-to-eye. That would be a sad way to go through life.

[Stonepony]

Wow, The " Congratulations" post it real hard for me to swallow. VP is my 3rd Ignore list resident now. Please block me from your Ebay autions.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Wow, The " Congratulations" post it real hard for me to swallow. VP is my 3rd Ignore list resident now. Please block me from your Ebay autions.

I not think the jewish comment was amounted to much...the congratulations post is bad, but the post on probstein sort of depends what is true or not but most likely ill assume its untrue. Since its coming from competition sort of, i think most people would take it with a grain of salt... It is interesting that there are arguments with sean bassick ...not sure why no other last games were given. ..its got to be a heck of a disagreement to not like a dozen people.

calvindog the lawyer likes to comment on my b/s/t thread and say im an idiot, i disagree with what he does and the fact he posting on my b/s/t thread but i like him. I wonder what disagreement could of occurred with a dozen people to not like them which could imply hate...

[pokerplyr80]

To be fair those emails don't contain any threats, just some insensitive jokes. But Scott it does appear you lack the temperament to be a company spokesman. If I was running just collect I would be putting someone else in charge of public communication. Before your reputation is completely ruined on this board and in the hobby in general addressing the problems with this break and issuing timely refunds might help. This whole situation is really a shame because a 52 Topps set break would have been awesome. Hopefully someone will be able to put one together.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

To be fair those emails don't contain any threats, just some insensitive jokes. But Scott it does appear you lack the temperament to be a company spokesman. If I was running just collect I would be putting someone else in charge of public communication. Before your reputation is completely ruined on this board and in the hobby in general addressing the problems with this break and issuing timely refunds might help. Thus whole situation is really a shame because a 52 Topps set break would have been awesome. Hopefully someone will be able to put one together.

I agree. A 1952 break would have been awesome. The price point just wasn't there. Burl from Burl's sports runs some awesome set breaks. I would think he makes a good deal from doing them, as he does them all the time, and obviously makes more breaking them up than he did buying the set. There is a difference between making a good profit and making an obscene killing. Not saying that this set falls in the "oscene" category, but it sure SEEMS like it. How much is a low grade 1952 set realistically worth?

[shammus]

Those posts are definitely "iffy" at best and a couple could easily be construed as offensive. If I'm the "face" or spokesman of a company, those are not the sort of posts I believe I would be making if I'm trying to positively build myself and my company up in the community.

Just Collect may want to reconsider the approach they take when advertising publically like this. This thread as well as the "...will pay 70% of the value of your cards..." campaign were very poorly received on Net54 and it's safe to say did way more harm than good.

Also, the moderator in me is concerned about the potential for harassing, bullying emails as those are definitely a no-no. Gotta keep the community safe and keep this a fun place to collect cards after all. I hope there isn't any of that going on....

[cincyredlegs]

Guys, give it a rest. I feel like I am on the CU boards.

If anyone should be offended it is all of us tired of the freaking WHINING the last two days. Enough already.

Mark

[bobbyw8469]

The CU boards is more like SGC these days. But, understood.

[Rich Klein]

As a Jewish person living in the exact area Scott mentioned in his email, I'm very disappointed in his lack of sensitivity towards faiths other than his.

Regards
Rich

[HRBAKER]

I personally find the "Congratulations" poster in infinitely poorer taste than the "dead cat" photo that rankled so many feathers but that's just me.

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I personally find the "Congratulations" poster in infinitely poorer taste than the "dead cat" photo that rankled so many feathers but that's just me.

+1000, though it wasn't originally posted here. But still.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I agree. A 1952 break would have been awesome. The price point just wasn't there. Burl from Burl's sports runs some awesome set breaks. I would think he makes a good deal from doing them, as he does them all the time, and obviously makes more breaking them up than he did buying the set. There is a difference between making a good profit and making an obscene killing. Not saying that this set falls in the "oscene" category, but it sure SEEMS like it. How much is a low grade 1952 set realistically worth?

Bobby:

I was curious so I did some numbers.

In very simple math for this break. If one purchased 2 or more slots they were $349.99 which we will round up to $350 for this purpose. Since the 1952 Set has 407 cards we will round that down to 400 cards for this part of the exercise.

Therefore 200 times 350 is $70,000 and with some people taking only one space and the few extra sales the gross would be about $75K

I don't think the profit is that much on a complete 52 set at $75 K especially with all the graded high numbers.

Perception is far worse than reality on that price point. And if 23K was what was spent on the Mantle -- then the price point made sense.

Just a shame the rest of this whole venture went south

Rich

[Peter_Spaeth]

Rich I don't follow your math although I may be missing something. 407 slots times 350 per slot is over 140K gross?

[BengoughingForAwhile]

349.99 x 407= $142,445.93

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Rich I don't follow your math although I may be missing something. 407 slots times 350 per slot is over 140K gross?

LOL, I seen that also. I figured Rich has not had his second cup of coffee yet.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Rich I don't follow your math although I may be missing something. 407 slots times 350 per slot is over 140K gross?

As i do collect a lot of 1952s...the chance of getting a card that was worth more than the slot price if were going to sell it in a pwcc/ebay auction the next week was very very small. There are no psa 6 high number commons that you can net $350 (save for 1 or 2 if super super centered) for example and i thought most of the cards were psa 5 or worse in high number. However the mickey and #407 etc would be a big steal. so there would be some big winners, but maybe for the slot price of $350 or so, there just were not enough consolation prizes to help sell the slots fast.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, I seen that also. I figured Rich has not had his second cup of coffee yet.

Dead on, multiply my numbers by 2 and the answer is $140K -- I need that second jolt of caffeine. Trust me, I'm noticing that in my real life work as well. Coke zero time -- here we come

[Rich Klein]

Now that we using $150K as our price point for selling out this break

Let's see where the rest of this goes

$23K on Mantle -- assuming that is correct

96 other 52 High Numbers and let's say $100 each for decent looking copies

$9600 and since there are better cards such as Jackie, Roy and Eddie #407 lets make this double for $19K

310 other cards -- at an average of $20 each for collectible cards

$6200 and for argument's sake -- let's even make this full book for the easiest series commons at $40 each and this would be $12.4K

So

23K
19K
12.4K

54.4 K

and for fun -- let's add another 25 percent

54.4 K plus 13.6 K - Rounding to make even

68K

So the $150K for selling every slot is probably a double which is not outrageous for any company with overhead. I suspect Justin can probably do his percent a bit tighter as his work is probably a leaner operation

So I hope I got my math right this time

What percent would YOU make if you spent about 70K to build a 52 Set and wanted to do a break.

Oh, and as for the comment about how few cards are worth the money -- isn't that the whole point of Power Ball, Mega Millions and all those other lotteries.

Regards
Rich

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Now that we using $150K as our price point for selling out this break



So the $150K for selling every slot is probably a double which is not outrageous for any company with overhead. I suspect Justin can probably do his percent a bit tighter as his work is probably a leaner operation

So I hope I got my math right this time

What percent would YOU make if you spent about 70K to build a 52 Set and wanted to do a break.

Oh, and as for the comment about how few cards are worth the money -- isn't that the whole point of Power Ball, Mega Millions and all those other lotteries.

Regards
Rich

I agree with you if people wanted to do a power ball, mega million type break then thats for them. So far there just does not seem enough people that want that. Theres a reason instant lotto gives out prizes that are the price of their ticket in addition to the huge prices.

As to: What percent would YOU make if you spent about 70K to build a 52 Set and wanted to do a break.

If you spent 70k on a set card by card and paid the buyers premium etc in order to obtain them, i would expect the original buyer to lose 10-20% on all of the commons cards. Assuming he bought the cards the last few years. If he bought the cards in 1952 he would make a TOOON! Also you would expect to make to make money on the 5-10 key cards if bought them last year or earlier.

If you paid BIN for some of those cards you would lose even more as I am assuming you are paying auction prices.


The set break seller that receives the consigned the cards to do a 'set break' has every right to make money on the venture and can charge whatever they want to make it worth it. Twice the set value may be reasonable. I dont have an opinion on that at this time.


But yes for Lotto type situation its good for those types of people. I know i would be thrilled if i was the one that won the mantle. Ultimately its the people paying for the slots that decides if the price is right i guess.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It seems to me that the fact that they haven't come anywhere close to selling out the slots, and that they are going in reverse because people are demanding refunds, tells you all you need to know about the price.

[Rich Klein]

No I get that part of the process

I was just trying to figure out why the $350 or $399 price point in the 1st place

I think based on the cost that was not unreasonable BUT that is stiff for the average card and average collector. Perhaps a tighter price point would have brought more sales to the table. A 25 percent profit over cost would have been about $200 per (or a tad more) and that might have appealed to more collectors. I was just trying to think of why the $350 price point for 2 or more slots was created.

[steve B]

I was just thinking, and wondered, if someone entered and had the slot with the Mantle, would they then have to pay income tax on it like any other prize?

Steve B

[Snapolit1]

Sure the answer is yes.

Was watching The Price is Right in a doctors office last week. Was wondering whether most of the folks in the audience could actually pay the taxes on a free car handed to them by Drew Carey.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Sure the answer is yes.

Was watching The Price is Right in a doctors office last week. Was wondering whether most of the folks in the audience could actually pay the taxes on a free car handed to them by Drew Carey.

There were many situations where fans that caught barry bonds record homeruns or other notable hits from other players and they had to sell the ball to pay the taxes

[Rich Klein]

The lady who won the Gretzky Wagner had to sell it ASAP to pay taxes.

Also, the people who won the vintage uniforms when UD ran a contest had to pay taxes on those as well

so the answer is yes

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

So did this ever happen?

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

So did this ever happen?

If it didn't, did everyone get their money back?
James

[jb217676]

That's crazy you have to pay taxes on prizes & lotteries in the States. In Canada, you don't have to pay anything, you keep 100% of your winnings!

[buymycards]

I was also wondering about this. Approximately 160 slots were sold for around $55k, and some refunds were given. Has this been resolved or is Just Collect sitting on $50,000 of other peoples money?

This set break is still listed on Vintagebreaks.com and they are showing 243 slots remaining. People are still able to buy slots through the website.

__________________________________________________ ______________
1952 Topps Set National Break PSA Graded
1952 TOPPS SET NATIONAL BREAK PSA GRADED

$359.99 As low as: $349.99
Spots left: 243 ADD TO CART

1952 TOPPS SET NATIONAL BREAK PSA GRADED
In stock SKU:vb-0001
Be the first to review this product




Thanks for purchasing slots in the 1952 Topps PSA set break. This break is still going to happen. We will need 3-4 weeks to fill it and will be putting up a message on the vintagebreaks.com web site explaining all the details. For any customer that does not want to wait until the break happens we will provide you with a prompt refund.

[buymycards]

Just Collect, in partnership with RippingWax.com will feature a complete, 1952 Topps Baseball PSA Set Break LIVE at the National. One person from this set break will receive the hottest card in the hobby today, the 1952 Topps #311 Mickey Mantle “rookie,” that has been graded PSA 3 (an image of the actual card is pictured below). This incredible set break will be offered by VintageBreaks.com and will include all 407 1952 Topps cards graded by PSA – this includes all of the scarce high number series (cards #311-407). The live break will occur at the Vintage Breaks booth in the Case Break Pavilion at the upcoming National in Atlantic City.

__________________________________________________ ____________
Something else is interesting. I'm not suggesting that anything is wrong, but I do find this intriguing.

Leighton Sheldon is the President of Just Collect, according to their website.

According to the VintageBreaks.com website, Leighton Sheldon is listed as a contact person, along with David Gelfman.

According to the RippingWax.com website, David Gelfman is the owner.

[HobokenJon]

Every state lottery has an independent audit firm on hand to supervise and vouch for the integrity of the number-selection process. Who is the independent third party that will be vouching for the integrity of the "computerized random number generator," the details of which aren't specified in the ad? Or should we just trust that the Mantle won't wind up in the hands of a related party?

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by HobokenJon

Every state lottery has an independent audit firm on hand to supervise and vouch for the integrity of the number-selection process. Who is the independent third party that will be vouching for the integrity of the "computerized random number generator," the details of which aren't specified in the ad? Or should we just trust that the Mantle won't wind up in the hands of a related party?

++this. If you're buying a slot in this fiasco, you have money to burn.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

we seem to be getting side tracked from the issue. This is a set break that was supposed to happen 4 months ago. When will they mercifully pull the plug on this? Was the buyer's money escrowed? Awful lot of press when it was supposed to go down, some information was forthcoming shortly thereafter, and since then pretty much crickets.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Perhaps it will continue through next year's National.

[MEBBoy]

I wish they would post a current status update. There has been no updates/info for 2+ months now. When there's a total black hole of information, that's concerning.

I haven't asked for a refund yet, but if they'd give an update (even if it's the same info) every 2 weeks or so, it would go a long way to alleviate concerns.

MEB Boy

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Perhaps it will continue through next year's National.

or National '18? At some point in our lifetime, this set-break will fill up.

Wasn't the slot price based on the value of the set last year? How can you have a continious 12 month set break with a fixed slot value and a changing set value.

I can assure you that if the set goes up in value, you will not be having a set-break at those old slot values. JC is getting a free look at your money.

[Fred]

This is like a fun cardboard lottery. The difference between this set break and the lottery is that you're guaranteed to get something. What is the going rate for a "3" graded Mantle these days? Worst case is that you get a card that may be worth a couple of bucks. How many of the cards have a value of over $350?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Mr. Alpaugh seems not to have posted on this board since early September.

[Exhibitman]

I don't see the attraction to these set breaks; though I did take a chance on the Kreindler painting lotto thing because I really admire his work and would have had a hell of a Joe Louis piece if I'd won. Regardless of the legal technicalities, it is definitely gambling and I don't really like it as part of the hobby.

Is a 1/407 chance at the Mantle worth a $350 fee? Not to me and not to most anyone else, apparently. The way I look at it (which is probably 100% wrong from a statistical analysis but WTF do I know) is that 1/407 = .2457% chance of winning the Mantle. .2457% = 0.002457 x $23,000 = $56.11. That's what I'd pay for the chance. Since there are some other good cards too, I might kick it up to $100 or so in case I get one of the great high # HOFers instead. But $350 doesn't feel realistic.

[Snapolit1]

I got a refund a few months back. Lesson learned. I knew it wasn't a good deal but thought it might interject a little fun into the National. I realized this was completely pha-cack-tah (sp?) when I went to their table at the National and it was only a woman there who couldn't tell me fast enough she didn't have any information on the break. Zero. "I really don't know a whole lot about it" were her words. Interesting business model. Perhaps they just dragged someone off the nearest slot machine and gave them a job for the day. Guessing their $10,000 high end memorabilia break didn't fill either but just a guess.