Decline in eBay listings?

[GregMitch34]

Is it just me or has there been a steady and growing decline in the number of pre-war eBay listings (especially for mid- to higher-graded) in past months? Perhaps I am just getting more selective but the number of cards I have 'watched' has plunged since last year. Is this real? Also, the reason? It seems like more and more auction houses perhaps a reason. Your thoughts?

[iowadoc77]

Seems like big time auction house listings are the new way to go with the way eBay is changing, how hard they are on the seller and the fees associated. Auctions seem to attract the right audience and seem to command pretty good prices. And I think high end cards look even better in those catalogs than a picture in eBay! And, one more thing, the risk of losing a high end card in the mail through eBay.

[jefferyepayne]

Ebay continues to become more and more seller unfriendly so people are looking for other avenues to sell their cards. With all of the small auction houses out there, you don't have to look very far, either!

jeff

[ullmandds]

totally agree!

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

Seems like big time auction house listings are the new way to go with the way eBay is changing, how hard they are on the seller and the fees associated. Auctions seem to attract the right audience and seem to command pretty good prices. And I think high end cards look even better in those catalogs than a picture in eBay! And, one more thing, the risk of losing a high end card in the mail through eBay.

[lharri3600]

I agree also! It was not a matter of if, but when with ebay. The chickens have come home to roost!

[t206blogcom]

It's a shame too because many collectors aren't aware of the auction houses and soley rely on ebay. When I started putting together my T206 set, I only knew about ebay. Halfway through I stumbled upon Net54 and auction houses. I then realized I overpaid for most of my set.

[pgellis]

There are several issues that have hurt eBay in recent years.

1. BINs - When I started to put together my T206 set about 10 years ago, there were at least a couple hundred eBay AUCTIONS for graded T206s ending every week on Sundays. Now, you get maybe 10-20 AUCTIONS ending each week. Everything is an over-priced BIN that just keeps getting listed month after month after month.

2. FEES - It seems that whenever a rare piece (card or memorabilia) is listed on eBay, someone reaches out and contacts the seller in order to hammer out a deal outside of eBay. It has happened to me with leather football helmets so many times I can't remember them all. I once told a seller to let his auction run it's course and I guaranteed him that I would be the high bidder. He let it run 7 days and then pulled it off of eBay within only hours of it's ending. Sellers would rather cut a lesser deal off of eBay to save on the seller's fees. I wish eBay made it harder to pull an item from an active listing once there was an initial bid by a bidder.

3. SHILLING - Once eBay hid bidder's IDs, it made it harder to prove shilling. Once a bidder suspects shilling, they will usually stop bidding on an item and if it becomes a pattern, they begin to ignore a certain seller altogether. Now, there was always shilling from the beginning of eBay, but now they make it so easy to do without any recourse.

I think eBay should go back to 100% auctions. You can have a BIN also, but the item must be an auction to begin with. In other words, you can have a card with a BIN of $500, but it must be listed as an auction with a starting price less than $500, for example. Don't allow sellers to end an auction once a bid has been placed and let's see member ID's again.

[Thromdog]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Is it just me or has there been a steady and growing decline in the number of pre-war eBay listings (especially for mid- to higher-graded) in past months? Perhaps I am just getting more selective but the number of cards I have 'watched' has plunged since last year. Is this real? Also, the reason? It seems like more and more auction houses perhaps a reason. Your thoughts?

Back to the topic on the listings, I have to agree. My watchlist/bid list has also dwindled substantially over the past year. I think you're right that it's likely due to being more selective.....I have a couple dozen to finish the monster and halfway through Delongs. As for auction houses, I have to agree with that too. More of them and they are providing offerings more often through the year.

But, I personally think after getting serious these last 2 years, ebay still continues to be the best deal financially for buyers who are diligent, patient, and understand what they are buying. You just have to get around all the fluff and overpriced BIN's.

[iowadoc77]

There are still plenty of deals to be had on ebay and I do a ton of deals off ebay with reputable sellers who are very often willing to negotiate a much lower paypal price outside of the ebay confines. i know it is a risk, but a very low one with paypal's buyer protection (if you do goods and services).

ebay better for buyers in many aspects

ebay not better for sellers in many aspects.

[Thromdog]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

ebay better for buyers in many aspects

ebay not better for sellers in many aspects.

+1

[Orioles1954]

As a seller, I don't seek to make serious money on ebay. More or less, it's just to get rid of stuff I don't care about or want anymore on the cheap. If I'm looking to make significant money the auction route is the only venue for me. Even if I group hundreds of cards together I still make around the same amount if I had pieced them out on ebay. Sellers have diminished and many reliable buyers have gone by the wayside as well.

[Bpm0014]

It's a shame too because many collectors aren't aware of the auction houses and soley rely on ebay. When I started putting together my T206 set, I only knew about ebay. Halfway through I stumbled upon Net54 and auction houses. I then realized I overpaid for most of my set.

Same here!

[ullmandds]

it was inevitable...ebay has continuously jacked up selling/paypal fees...combined with not organizing/policing the vintage bb card area well at all. How many kicks to the groin can we take.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I completely disagree. If anything, the trend is going to be towards the ebay model and sellers such as PWCC and Probstein and others who are efficient, have lower costs, take a lower percentage of the realized price, and pay much quicker than most auction houses. Perhaps not for the very high end material, but for everything else.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Bpm0014

It's a shame too because many collectors aren't aware of the auction houses and soley rely on ebay. When I started putting together my T206 set, I only knew about ebay. Halfway through I stumbled upon Net54 and auction houses. I then realized I overpaid for most of my set.

Same here!

well that would mean sellers are doing well on ebay versus other places for those cards..so not sure why the trend would be to list less of those cards if they are making the most money selling on ebay if you are stating you would of paid less at other places....you may of stopped but there are others doing the same thing..

[iowadoc77]

I think there is a good model with some of the sellers like probstein and PWCC, but the shill bidding drives me crazy so i usually just stay away because i know it will go for more than i want to pay. Each continue to have their place, but i do see the vast majority of high end stuff going the route of the auction houses, except for those incredibly over-priced BIN items that I think some sellers put on there just so people know they have them. Example E98 Ty Cobb PSA 9 for $43K ish. Been there a long time. As have many others

[Peter_Spaeth]

Auction houses, on the other hand, have no shill bidding issues, and stuff never goes higher than you want to pay.

[TanksAndSpartans]

This is a question I don’t know the answer to - If I have a card that sells for $500 in an eBay auction, I know I can get 88% by auctioning it off with a major eBay consigner. Are the Auction Houses competitive for cards in that price range? If my consignment sold for $500 with an AH, wouldn’t I only get a percentage of (500 minus the buyer’s premium)?

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by t206blogcom

It's a shame too because many collectors aren't aware of the auction houses and soley rely on ebay. When I started putting together my T206 set, I only knew about ebay. Halfway through I stumbled upon Net54 and auction houses. I then realized I overpaid for most of my set.

I agree with that Jason. There's only a couple of auctions that I'm aware of that regularly has t206's.

Sterling and Joe's vintage. Other than that I don't know about any but eBay. Which like you said are almost always overpriced.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

I think there is a good model with some of the sellers like probstein and PWCC, but the shill bidding drives me crazy so i usually just stay away because i know it will go for more than i want to pay. Each continue to have their place, but i do see the vast majority of high end stuff going the route of the auction houses, except for those incredibly over-priced BIN items that I think some sellers put on there just so people know they have them. Example E98 Ty Cobb PSA 9 for $43K ish. Been there a long time. As have many others

Eric how can you tell if there is shill bidding on a card ???

[pawpawdiv9]

Originally Posted by DezHood

This is a question I don’t know the answer to - If I have a card that sells for $500 in an eBay auction, I know I can get 88% by auctioning it off with a major eBay consigner. Are the Auction Houses competitive for cards in that price range? If my consignment sold for $500 with an AH, wouldn’t I only get a percentage of (500 minus the buyer’s premium)?

Correct me if wrong. But the consignor gets the final bid amount/hammer price
The buyer pays that plus the BP (buyer premium)
Scenario: If the buyer places a 500$ bid,and it hammers/ends at 500, then you get 500$
Now if the BV of it is 500$, then buyers would take the BP into consideration into their bids henceforth, their max would be near 420$ (BP would be 84$) and also consider the S/H plus taxes, which could make that even lower.

[Cubswin82]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

Correct me if wrong. But the consignor gets the final bid amount/hammer price
The buyer pays that plus the BP (buyer premium)
Scenario: If the buyer places a 500$ bid, then you get 500$
Now if the BV of it is 500$, then buyers would take the BP into consideration into their bids henceforth, their max would be near 420$ (BP would be 84$) and also consider the S/H plus taxes, which could make that even lower.

The way most auction houses work is there is a BP (typically 20%) that the Buyers pay and a co-signment fee that the seller pays (or actually comes out of the final sales price)...which typically ranges from 5%-20% depending on what the item is and how much money the AH thinks they can make off of it.

So for instance...I want to sell an item and lets say it goes for $1,000. Well, when you consign it to the AH, you agree on a fee, lets say 5% in this case. So, if the hammer drops on final bid at $1,000...I get 95% of that so $950. THe buyer of that lot pays the $1,000 + 20% BP, so they are paying $1,200 for that item. The AH makes $250 in that case.

[pawpawdiv9]

Just want to point out above ^^ : There are some AH's that charge 0% commission.

[Peter_Spaeth]

For about the millionth time, the relevant number for the consignor is the sum of the seller's premium/consignment fee (if any) and the buyer's premium.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks guys - in my head this is what I was thinking.... Card sells for $500 on eBay with 88% consigner, I get 440.

Same card for auction house, the first thing that comes to mind is they would want more on a item that will sell for less than 1000 (maybe I'm wrong here??) - at least the emails and mailers they send me, they always ask for high end consignmnets. So, say they ask for 3% and the buyer's premium is 18%. The buyer only wants to pay 500 so he bids 424 and wins. I get 97% of 424 or 411. I've done about 30 dollars worse than I would've done on eBay.......

[sycks22]

Originally Posted by Cubswin82

The way most auction houses work is there is a BP (typically 20%) that the Buyers pay and a co-signment fee that the seller pays (or actually comes out of the final sales price)...which typically ranges from 5%-20% depending on what the item is and how much money the AH thinks they can make off of it.

So for instance...I want to sell an item and lets say it goes for $1,000. Well, when you consign it to the AH, you agree on a fee, lets say 5% in this case. So, if the hammer drops on final bid at $1,000...I get 95% of that so $950. THe buyer of that lot pays the $1,000 + 20% BP, so they are paying $1,200 for that item. The AH makes $250 in that case.

If you're selling with an auction house that charges a consignment fee you're going to the wrong one. Depending on the value of the cards (nothing super low) you should be getting 0%

[TanksAndSpartans]

Originally Posted by sycks22

If you're selling with an auction house that charges a consignment fee you're going to the wrong one. Depending on the value of the cards (nothing super low) you should be getting 0%

Thanks - I wasn't aware of that. Still most of the buyer's premiums I see are around 18% across the board where the eBay consigners are only taking around 12% for items valued above 100 bucks.

Back to the original question, I suspect it is getting tougher for the average seller on eBay - you have to deal with fees, non-payers, irrational customers, etc. - I wouldn't do it and maybe that's why we see less of them. And one question that wasn't asked - do we really want to deal with more sellers? Wouldn't most of us chose say BBCE (just as a top of my head example) over Joe Smith with decent feedback, but 3 negatives - one of the negatives calls him a "scammer". Sure, I'll take a chance, but it doesn't give me a great feeling.

The large consigners are now basically acting as "eBay auction houses" - they pay good rates and a lot of collector's have eBay searches that work pretty well. Buyers' know the card will arrive shipped relatively quickly and packaged relatively well. I don't see that part of eBay going away right now.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Thanks guys - in my head this is what I was thinking.... Card sells for $500 on eBay with 88% consigner, I get 440.

Same card for auction house, the first thing that comes to mind is they would want more on a item that will sell for less than 1000 (maybe I'm wrong here??) - at least the emails and mailers they send me, they always ask for high end consignmnets. So, say they ask for 3% and the buyer's premium is 18%. The buyer only wants to pay 500 so he bids 424 and wins. I get 97% of 424 or 411. I've done about 30 dollars worse than I would've done on eBay.......

The issue here is that you can't always guarantee that you will get the same price on ebay that the items sells for in the auction house. Auctions in ebay are usually 7-10 days in length. There are tens of thousands upon thousands of cards listed on ebay (via BIN and auction) on any given day. You are hoping that the right eyes that want your card are seeing your auctions during that time. If not, you are at high risk that your card will not be seen by the right audience that wants to buy your card. If the card that you are selling is a 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth or a T206 Ty Cobb common back, you will probably get enough eyes on ebay where the auction will sell close to VCP. However, if you have a rare Kalamazoo Bats card which typically high rollers go after, your card will probably not bring the best price on ebay in an auction.

Auction houses typically run from 2 weeks to a month (and some start showing your item on their site even earlier via previews). They advertise on many areas such as sites like this and other places. The larger auction houses even ship a print catalog to their mailing list so that there is an even greater chance that your item will be seen by the right people who want to bid on it. Therefore, there is a better chance that the card will achieve a higher price in the auction house. However, there are drawbacks, especially with the higher BP and seller's commission noted earlier. In addition, if it's a high end auction, and your consignments aren't so "high end," your items might be "lost" among all of the other top tier items that are being sold in that auction. That is, bidders will be bidding on those "iconic" cards and may miss your listings or not bid in them because they want to save their funds for the items that they are really trying to get.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Gary, as a seller 100% agree. I'd go with eBay for "mainstream" cards - Topps, Bowman, etc. In fact with the huge AH catalogs, my theory is those kind of "ordinary" cards might be ignored. I'd definitely be wary about auctioning off anything even slightly obscure, like say a program, on eBay because the right people may not see it. Using a football example, I'd sell my 1950 Bowman Otto Graham on eBay, but my 1948 AAFC championship game program with an AH - it seems like the "rational" way to go.....

[glchen]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Gary, as a seller 100% agree. I'd go with eBay for "mainstream" cards - Topps, Bowman, etc. In fact with the huge AH catalogs, my theory is those kind of "ordinary" cards might be ignored. I'd definitely be wary about auctioning off anything even slightly obscure, like say a program, on eBay because the right people may not see it. Using a football example, I'd sell my 1950 Bowman Otto Graham on eBay, but my 1948 AAFC championship game program with an AH - it seems like the "rational" way to go.....

I agree. I'd sell ordinary cards or mid-grade sets on ebay rather than send them to auction houses.

[smtjoy]

I use both ebay and AH's for buying and selling. For auctions IMO eBay is best if your item is less than $100 and even more so if less than $30. Ebay has a broader audience, you pick when your auctions run, I can choose my starting price to protect myself and I feel they bring higher prices on low dollar items. I also have good luck with my ebay BIN's as I feel if you list close to a fair price your card will sell over time.

I prefer AH's if the item will likely sell over $100 and even more so over $250, my reasons are greater exposure and I dont have to worry about payment or returns. The though of selling a $1000 card and 80 days later the seller files for an ebay return I find unacceptable (they can file from 90-180 days after the auction closes), I just don't trust eBay enough on expensive cards. I also feel the big high dollar collectors spend more of their card budget in AH's than ebay. I have had a number of cards sit in my eBay store for a year then I pull and send them to an AH and they sell higher.

For disclosure sake I have had an ebay store for over 7 years and I have consigned to LOTG, Sterling, Goodwin and B & L.

To me the choice comes down to -

If its most important to maximize profit on everyday stuff (say a common T210-1)-

List as a 7 day auction on ebay at the lowest price you are ok selling it at and hope you get interest and a couple bidders to compete, if items fails to get any bids I then convert it to a BIN at the starting bid price (also list on boards BST with 10% discount after auction). If priced within 5% of VCP normally it will sell within 6 months. I try to price from +15-20% which can mean up to 3 years to sell. Also note these are usually cards with no other listing at that condition on ebay and the higher graded are priced much higher. If you are selling a common card like a T206 common in SGC 40 and there are 10 for sale, you had better price it at the lowest or 2nd lowest if you want to to sell anytime soon(a card like this at auction plan to for it to sell for a lot lower than those listed generally).

If I want the money now then an auction is the only way to go-

For low dollar I just list on ebay at either a .99 or 9.99 start and let it ride. For higher value I send to an AH that's right for what I am selling and let it ride.

[pwang100]

Sniper services killed Ebay for me.

[Sean1125]

I have seen much less coming up recently online - I see many "groupings" being sold at auction houses instead of broken up. I think due to value and logistics. I run everything $.99 no reserve. I don't have as much pre-war material as I used to.

[cozmokramer]

Every card I sold through an auction house, I got exactly what the final bid was. The high bidder paid an extra hour 20% which went to the auction house.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by cozmokramer

Every card I sold through an auction house, I got exactly what the final bid was. The high bidder paid an extra hour 20% which went to the auction house.

I am sure the bidders accounted for that extra 20% in their bidding strategies.

[GregMitch34]

Yes, I certainly factor in the buyer's premium and I presume most do. That's why VCP always includes the buyer's premium in their accounting. So a card that sells for 600 on eBay and same card selling for 500 + 100 at auction house gets listed also at 600. Which is accurate.

[Touch'EmAll]

Lets say a buyer is willing to spend $1,000. on a card. If the seller lists on ebay for BIN $1k there will be 10% ebay fees and then Paypal fees to net the seller approx. $875.

If the card went to, say, REA, there is a 20% buyers fee, so the buyer is willing to bid $830. making it about $1,000. cost after the juice.

Assume no auction house seller fees for the seller, ebay BIN gives a better net price. However, I can see how an ebay true auction is just too risky for seller.

[GregMitch34]

That's a good analysis but you have to factor in that some bidders at AHs, even though they know they should factor in the added 20%, often willfully ignore it in the heat of battle...