Baseball's Greatest Living Player...who is it?

[jason.1969]

Wow, I will say this about Yogi Berra...had he made my list of 25 candidates, which he didn't because his career batting stats aren't gaudy enough, his ten rings would have given him a higher overall score than anyone I ranked.

[jason.1969]

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone else put Dick Schofield on a list of steroid guys before. At the same time, those 13 HRs in 1986 look a bit suspect vs the rest of his career. ;-)

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Wow, I will say this about Yogi Berra...had he made my list of 25 candidates, which he didn't because his career batting stats aren't gaudy enough, his ten rings would have given him a higher overall score than anyone I ranked.

just comparing him to jeter -

berra - .285, 358 hr - 3 MVP

Jeter - .310. 260 hr - 0 MVP

[dabigyankeeman]

I gotta go with Willie Mays.

[Vintagevault13]

Hitters

1. Hank Aaron
2. Willie Mays
3. Frank Robinson
4. Reggie Jackson
5. Yogi Berra

Pitchers

1. Sandy Koufax
2. Greg Maddux
3. Tom Seaver
4. Randy Johnson
5. Nolan Ryan

[iwantitiwinit]

Considering all facets of the game and giving consideration for how much that player exceeded the ability of other players at the plate and at his position in the field:

1) Mays
2) Bench
3) Aaron

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Which living BB player has been in 14 World Series, and has 10 World Series Championship rings ?

And, he played a major role in his team's success for 19 years. There isn't any better measurement of a player than this.

In my book its......YOGI BERRA




Cooperstown 2012


TED Z
.

1947 Bond Bread rookie card


Yogi was a tremendous clutch hitter....so, for you guys who dig Stats....
here are some meaningful Stats that really count:

Year = RBI's
--------------
1948.....98
1949.....91
1950....124
1951.....88
1952.....98
1953....108
1954....125
1955....108
1956....105
1957.....82
1958.....90

Furthermore, Yogi's invaluable performance behind homeplate is not fully recognized by Statistical means.

Finally, consider this old axiom......the key factor behind most Championship teams is a Star Catcher.



TED Z
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I agree statistics don't tell the full Yogi Berra story, but better than Mays and Aaron? No way.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone else put Dick Schofield on a list of steroid guys before. At the same time, those 13 HRs in 1986 look a bit suspect vs the rest of his career. ;-)

Huh? The reference was to Gary Sheffield.

[jason.1969]

Yes, I was just making a joke based on the original spelling in the post, which I think was Schfield.

[iwantitiwinit]

Ted I don't know about Berra over Bench. From an rbi perspective they are very close though you porbably have to move Berras numbers up because during the years you cite he played in a season that was 8 games shorter than Bench did. In Bench's defense his '71 season was significantly harmed by his lung surgery during the off-season. Additionally, in my opinion Bench's defensive ability was greater than Berra's. While Berra's caught stealing pct. is higher than Bench's, Bench played in an era where the national league was obsessed with base stealing and played in many parks with astroturf which I think have to be considered faster overall tracks for the runner.

Either way a good pair to compare (though I think Bench has to be considered the better overall player).

Bench
yr rbi
1968 82
69 90
70 148
71 61
72 125
73 104
74 129
75 130
76 74
77 109
78 73
79 80

100.42 avg rbi/yr 12 yrs


Berra

1948 98
49 91
50 124
51 88
52 98
53 108
54 125
55 108
56 105
57 82
58 90

101.55 avg rbi/yr 11 yrs

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by bnorth

At no time was Joe DiMaggio the greatest living player.

My vote for now is Hank Aaron.

At "peak value" Joe DiMaggio sure was the greatest living player. Anyone who bats .350+ and consistently strikes out LESS than his 30+ home run totals has my vote. The finest bat control for a power hitter in baseball history INCLUDING Ted Williams.

[rjackson44]

reggie jackson

[obcbobd]

Aaron or Mays.

Koufax, Pedro maybe Johnson for pitcher.

Jeter top 25

Berra probably top 10

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

One could argue the torch passed to Cobb, who lived until 1960 or so. And before Mays and Mantle retired, one could argue Williams or Musial over DiMaggio.

I think maybe I am interpreting the question differently (from everyone else?). I was thinking Babe Ruth was the best ever; therefore, at any point during his life, whether anyone realized it or not, he was the greatest living player. And on the other point I just happen to think Young was better than Cobb and Mays.

So here's how I see it:

1841-1852: Jim Creighton
1852-1857: Cap Anson
1857-1861: Tim Keefe
1861-1867: John Clarkson
1867-1887: Cy Young
1887-1895: Walter Johnson
1895-1948: Babe Ruth
1948-1955: Cy Young
1955-present: Willie Mays

[iwantitiwinit]

Darwin you are an evolutionary thinker!

[perezfan]

Lots of Batting stats being thrown around. But also taking fielding and base-running into account, I'd put Griffey Jr. right up there with Aaron and Mays.

Playing for small market teams hurt him, and this forum (myself included) favors vintage and tends to glorify the past a bit more.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I think maybe I am interpreting the question differently (from everyone else?). I was thinking Babe Ruth was the best ever; therefore, at any point during his life, whether anyone realized it or not, he was the greatest living player. And on the other point I just happen to think Young was better than Cobb and Mays.

So here's how I see it:

1841-1852: Jim Creighton
1852-1857: Cap Anson
1857-1861: Tim Keefe
1861-1867: John Clarkson
1867-1887: Cy Young
1887-1895: Walter Johnson
1895-1948: Babe Ruth
1948-1955: Cy Young
1955-present: Willie Mays

Huh? These dates make no sense at all. You're using someone's birthdate to define when they became the greatest living player? I think almost everyone else would understand the question to be about who, based on past performance, was the greatest living player.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

Ted I don't know about Berra over Bench. From an rbi perspective they are very close though you porbably have to move Berras numbers up because during the years you cite he played in a season that was 8 games shorter than Bench did. In Bench's defense his '71 season was significantly harmed by his lung surgery during the off-season. Additionally, in my opinion Bench's defensive ability was greater than Berra's. While Berra's caught stealing pct. is higher than Bench's, Bench played in an era where the national league was obsessed with base stealing and played in many parks with astroturf which I think have to be considered faster overall tracks for the runner.

Either way a good pair to compare (though I think Bench has to be considered the better overall player).

Bench
yr rbi
1968 82
69 90
70 148
71 61
72 125
73 104
74 129
75 130
76 74
77 109
78 73
79 80

100.42 avg rbi/yr 12 yrs


Berra

1948 98
49 91
50 124
51 88
52 98
53 108
54 125
55 108
56 105
57 82
58 90

101.55 avg rbi/yr 11 yrs

Berra's and Bench's numbers regarding Hits, Runs, RBI's and HR's compare very closely. Berra having the edge over Bench in career BA (.285 vs. .267, respectively).

However, I am old enough to have seen Yogi play from 1947 - 1965. I was an avid Yankees fan as a kid. Besides Yogi's outstanding play (Batting and as a Catcher),
there are certain intangibles in his style of playing the game that you had to see to really appreciate.

For example, I think Don Larsen would not have achieved his perfect World Series no-hitter, if Yogi wasn't his battery mate that day in October 1956.

I could continue with many other examples (such as Yogi's Grand Slam in the 1956 World Series), but I leave it here.


TED Z
.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I think maybe I am interpreting the question differently (from everyone else?). I was thinking Babe Ruth was the best ever; therefore, at any point during his life, whether anyone realized it or not, he was the greatest living player. And on the other point I just happen to think Young was better than Cobb and Mays.

So here's how I see it:

1841-1852: Jim Creighton
1852-1857: Cap Anson
1857-1861: Tim Keefe
1861-1867: John Clarkson
1867-1887: Cy Young
1887-1895: Walter Johnson
1895-1948: Babe Ruth
1948-1955: Cy Young
1955-present: Willie Mays

What the hell are you smoking?

[glchen]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I think maybe I am interpreting the question differently (from everyone else?). I was thinking Babe Ruth was the best ever; therefore, at any point during his life, whether anyone realized it or not, he was the greatest living player. And on the other point I just happen to think Young was better than Cobb and Mays.

So here's how I see it:

1841-1852: Jim Creighton
1852-1857: Cap Anson
1857-1861: Tim Keefe
1861-1867: John Clarkson
1867-1887: Cy Young
1887-1895: Walter Johnson
1895-1948: Babe Ruth
1948-1955: Cy Young
1955-present: Willie Mays

I think this list is interesting, but as others have said, you probably should start it when they first started playing professional baseball rather than when they were born. Even better start when they were known as the best player in the game, so for Ruth around 1919-1921 or so.

I think my list would be:

(1) Mays
(2) Rose
(3) Aaron

For pitchers, although Koufax was absolutely dominant for around 4 years or so, I think that sample size is too small to call him the greatest living pitcher. There are too many great pitchers like Pedro and Randy Johnson. You can even say that Clayton Kershaw has been absolutely dominant for 4 years now and he still has a lot left in the tank.

[bcbgcbrcb]

My vote goes to the Say Hey Kid with Hammerin Hank a close second

[Touch'EmAll]

Great vs.best?

Greatest I kinda have to go with Berra, perhaps Ryan. Griffey Jr. also comes to mind.

How about greatest living athlete = Bo Jackson, hands down.

[bigtrain]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Berra's and Bench's numbers regarding Hits, Runs, RBI's and HR's compare very closely. Berra having the edge over Bench in career BA (.285 vs. .267, respectively).

However, I am old enough to have seen Yogi play from 1947 - 1965. I was an avid Yankees fan as a kid. Besides Yogi's outstanding play (Batting and as a Catcher),
there are certain intangibles in his style of playing the game that you had to see to really appreciate.

For example, I think Don Larsen would not have achieved his perfect World Series no-hitter, if Yogi wasn't his battery mate that day in October 1956.

I could continue with many other examples (such as Yogi's Grand Slam in the 1956 World Series), but I leave it here.


TED Z
.

I have always put Yogi ahead of Bench in my mind. Part of that is the fact that I think that Yogi made Stengel a great manager. He has been a tremendous ambassador for the game as well. Johnny Bench, while a terrific player, is a phony and a jerk.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Great vs.best?

Greatest I kinda have to go with Berra, perhaps Ryan. Griffey Jr. also comes to mind.

How about greatest living athlete = Bo Jackson, hands down.

I remember watching Bo okay when I was a child. He was held with the same regard as Superman. I can't help but wonder what might have been.

Deon would also be on the list for greatest athlete.

[LincolnVT]

Pete Rose...

[Fred]

Why not stir the pot.... Barry "Frigging" Bonds.

[darwinbulldog]

If you just look at their career stats, with even the most rudimentary sabermetric analysis Barry comes out a bit ahead of his godfather, but if you make a very modest adjustment for either the steroids or the Korean War (and not for the amphetamines) then Mays comes out ahead.

[tedzan]

One powerful dude.

Summer of 1987, on the spur of the moment we decided to go to a night game at Yankee Stadium (KC was the visiting team).

The only tickets available at the Ticket booth were for upper deck RF seats. So, that is were we sat.

In the 7th inning, Bo Jax came to bat. We were approx. 400 feet from homeplate, and we heard a crack of the bat that was unreal.
Then we realized that the ball was coming straight at us.

None of us dared to try and catch it. But, were hoping to get it when it hit the vacant sets near us. Well the ball did hit the nearby seats
with such intensity that it rebounded back into the outfield.

And, need I remind you that Bo was a righthanded batter.


TED Z
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bo Jackson, Josh Gibson, and Babe Ruth -- identified by Buck O'Neill as being the only three hitters he had seen who produced a particular sound of bat on ball.

[Touch'EmAll]

Its just a shame, totally not right, that Baseball and/or Football Hall of Fame does not put in Bo. think about it…hall of FAME. Nobody was ever as famous at one point as Bo, except perhaps Ruth or Satchell Paige or Jordan. Of all the two bit barely make it players the Hall has allowed in, come on folks, give Bo some love, respect and acknowledgement he is well deserved due.

[frankh8147]

1. Mays
2. Aaaron
3. Maddux
4. Rose
5. Griffey

[Centauri]

As to the question of Jeter - how about greatest living short stop. Would you take Ozzie Smith over Jeter? Jeter better at the plate, Ozzie in the field. Both were very successful in regular season and post season.

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Its just a shame, totally not right, that Baseball and/or Football Hall of Fame does not put in Bo. think about it…hall of FAME. Nobody was ever as famous at one point as Bo, except perhaps Ruth or Satchell Paige or Jordan. Of all the two bit barely make it players the Hall has allowed in, come on folks, give Bo some love, respect and acknowledgement he is well deserved due.

My other nominee for the Freaking Amazing Player Cut Down by Injury wing of the Hall would be J.R. Richard. I'm not going to bother dumping out stats here...just remember how dominant this guy was whenever I listened to him pitch against my Dodgers. And the season he suffered his stroke really felt to me like it could have been his finest.

Richard is a great rags to riches to rags to riches story and a player whose Life in Cards will definitely become part of my collection.

jr-richard.jpg

[71buc]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Lots of Batting stats being thrown around. But also taking fielding and base-running into account, I'd put Griffey Jr. right up there with Aaron and Mays.

Playing for small market teams hurt him, and this forum (myself included) favors vintage and tends to glorify the past a bit more.

I saw Aaron late in his career. However, I have to admit that Junior was the most exciting if not the best I ever saw play in person. Although he was a bit of a prim donna I feel privileged to have witnessed his career from beginning to end. He was absolutely the most complete player of his generation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Even pre steroids I would rate Bonds right up there with and possibly ahead of Griffey. Not quite the home run power but everything else, and he was a better overall hitter in part because of his phenomenal ability to draw walks.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Centauri

As to the question of Jeter - how about greatest living short stop. Would you take Ozzie Smith over Jeter? Jeter better at the plate, Ozzie in the field. Both were very successful in regular season and post season.

Ripkin

[rats60]

Mays and Koufax. I can't consider someone who was never the best player in the game to be the best living player (looking at you Aaron).

[SteveMitchell]

Mays over Aaron by a nose (or more) and I have long shared the writer's opinion of Sandy Koufax. Koufax was phenomenal for the last 5 of his 12 seasons. However, in his first 7 years, he broke below 3.50 ERA only once: 1955 when he was 3.02 in 4 decisions. After 1961 he was brilliant; the brilliance was just too brief to rank as Greatest Living. For that title, I guess I'd go with Maddux among pitchers. (Randy might have gotten the nod had he given more than half-hearted efforts in his final games at Seattle (9-10 won-lost record on 4.33 ERA before posting a spiffy 10-1 mark and 1.28 ERA at Houston) in 1998.

Originally Posted by Jobu

For hitters, and probably overall, I say Mays over Aaron by a nose.

For pitchers I say Maddux and Randy Johnson need to be in the conversation. Many of you will get mad at this, but I don't think Koufax is in the conversation for best living player. He was absolutely incredible for 5 years and decent for the rest of his career. 5 years does not make one the best living player and we can't count what would have happened if not for the shoulder issues at the end.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Ripkin

Never use your 1990 Fleer cards to get the spelling of names.

[jason.1969]

Many rightfully have Berra somewhere on their lists. Trying to understand how he could get only 65% of the HOF vote in his first year of eligibility. Was there some large faction of writers who still regarded him as active since he was managing?

[7nohitter]

Mays
Aaron
Doerr

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Ripkin

In my opinion he is vastly over-rated.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

In my opinion he is vastly over-rated.

Im just saying i think he was better than jeter

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

In my opinion he is vastly over-rated.

430 HR, 3200 hits, 2 MVPs, about a zillion all star appearances and he was vastly overrated how?

[kengoldin]

Name career hits HR RBI AVG OPS MVPS GGs top 3 MVPs World Series champ
MAYS 3283 660 1903 302 941 2 12 6 1
Aaron 3771 755 2297 302 928 1 3 7 1
XXXXX 2519 520 1603 317 991 3 2 8 1


Sorry for formatting.....
what a skewed audience though.

player xxxxx should have won 5 MVPs as he was 2nd twice to Barry Bonds. 8 time top 3 in MVP voting 8 times in 10 years.
Player xxxxx is still putting up numbers, and unquestionably without peer during a 10 year period was considered the best player in the game....and likely the most consistent player from his rookie year to 12th season ever to play the game.
Player xxxx hit 3 home runs in a world series game to boot.
of course its Albert Pujols.
BTW, not saying he is 'the greatest living ballplayer' but it is amazing some of the names that HAVE been mentioned, and he hasn't been mentioned once.

[GregMitch34]

Without move to bandbox Atlanta no one would be picking Aaron over Mays.

[Fred]

You can try and make a case for Ripken, there's certainly an arguement to be made but he only led the league in a few offensive categories and only a few times. His .276 lifetime BA is more indicative of his longevity in the game rather than being a total monster in the batters box. However, if you're adding intangibles like being a great role model and sportsman, then you can make an agruement for him. Look at Barry Bonds, he was a monster in the box. Yes, it was assisted by PEDs but he was a monster. Now on the other hand, he was a total horses ass. If you let that negate his monster ability on the field then Ripken by far is the better choice.

Oh yeah, let me clarify something. I can't stand Barry Bonds. I think what he did to the game was just wrong. I think sticking around long enough to hit more HRs than Aaron was a classless act. I only wish MLB could have suspended him long enough to not allow that to happen.

Did anyone mention a pitcher as their choice?

[ZenPop]

Easiest answer EVER...

WILLIE MAYS

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

Name career hits HR RBI AVG OPS MVPS GGs top 3 MVPs World Series champ
MAYS 3283 660 1903 302 941 2 12 6 1
Aaron 3771 755 2297 302 928 1 3 7 1
XXXXX 2519 520 1603 317 991 3 2 8 1


Sorry for formatting.....
what a skewed audience though.

player xxxxx should have won 5 MVPs as he was 2nd twice to Barry Bonds. 8 time top 3 in MVP voting 8 times in 10 years.
Player xxxxx is still putting up numbers, and unquestionably without peer during a 10 year period was considered the best player in the game....and likely the most consistent player from his rookie year to 12th season ever to play the game.
Player xxxx hit 3 home runs in a world series game to boot.
of course its Albert Pujols.
BTW, not saying he is 'the greatest living ballplayer' but it is amazing some of the names that HAVE been mentioned, and he hasn't been mentioned once.

Hes on my list , post #50 on this thread