Vintage Set Group Break Idea! Input Needed!

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by roce4e52

I would take a spot or 5 depending on price. Better odds than the lottery.
Bill D.

Awesome. Definitely better odds than the lottery because at least in these you always end up with something.

Thanks for the support,
-Nick

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hey guys
Nick approached me with this idea and it sounded like it could be something to keep our forum current and energized. I don't think anything is set in stone yet so any suggestions and/or feedback is appreciated. The '55 set seemed good because of it's size and star amount but i am also open to thinking about other sets, maybe pre-war? Or maybe the first one is the '55 and we see how it goes. I am not sure we can fill over 200 slots. Keep the feedback coming and thanks to Nick for offering to handle it. Believe me guys, this is all Greek to me too!!

As Leon stated keep those suggestions and feedback coming. We really appreciate and want to run something you guys will enjoy.

-Nick

[ZenPop]

I love these kind of things... and it's always kind of a dream of mine to find a box of really old cards and do a break... this is about as close as I'll ever get to something like that... and as was mentioned before... better than Vegas, because everyone will get something... The '55 set seems a good bet... great design... a lot of excellent players... (anything from 1956 and earlier interests me). I have a couple of friends who (while not on the forum) would be interested in this (is that allowed?). ...so I think, Leon, there's a good chance of selling all the slots. Keep us posted!

[roce4e52]

If you ran 10 random number scans you could publish the results on Friday and tie the chosen numbers with the total number of runs scored on Sunday. Like football boards. That way we could spend Monday cursing or praising the Yankee, Dodger or Red Sox (others Sunday night teams too possibly) player that scored or allowed the run that moved you from Clemente to Finigan.
Bill D

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by autocentral

Random.org has a random list generator. I will broadcast the random live and run the generator 5 times.

Thanks for the question,
Nick

Not trying to poopoo anything, but what is the point of running the random list generator 5 times rather than just once? It's not like shuffling a deck of cards where things only get sorta randomized the first time. Are the extra 4 randomizations just to make the skeptics feel better?

(I'm not trying to be a smart alec here. I just really don't understand the point of randomizing multiple times.)

[nebboy]

If and when a prewar break happened I'd be in.

[wolf441]

I really think this is a great idea (that's the degenerate gambler in me!). Here are some sets for thought, including a Pre-WWI:

T201 - 50 cards
1941 Playball - 72 Cards
1948 Bowman - 48 cards
1955 Topps

[BlueSky]

It sounds like must watch TV as it's streamed live. I believe the corresponding thread chatter will be great to follow.

I would be interested in a pre-war break.

[Leerob538]

I like the idea, I am in for a spot or 2.

Mr. Lee

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Not trying to poopoo anything, but what is the point of running the random list generator 5 times rather than just once? It's not like shuffling a deck of cards where things only get sorta randomized the first time. Are the extra 4 randomizations just to make the skeptics feel better?

(I'm not trying to be a smart alec here. I just really don't understand the point of randomizing multiple times.)

The running the random generator is to make skeptics feel better and provide more excitement to the people watching live. I feel one-three randoms are good if you have about 5-10 people in the break, anything past that 5 is usually the best way to avoid anyone complaining or being skeptical.

-Nick

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Nick--What's in this for you?

As I stated in a previous answer to a question. There is a premium charge added to the break which Leon & I are splitting 50/50. A lot of time goes into planning and actually doing the break.

I also do this because I love the hobby. I collect vintage cards and thought it would be a great way to bring our community together.

-Nick

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by ZenPop

I love these kind of things... and it's always kind of a dream of mine to find a box of really old cards and do a break... this is about as close as I'll ever get to something like that... and as was mentioned before... better than Vegas, because everyone will get something... The '55 set seems a good bet... great design... a lot of excellent players... (anything from 1956 and earlier interests me). I have a couple of friends who (while not on the forum) would be interested in this (is that allowed?). ...so I think, Leon, there's a good chance of selling all the slots. Keep us posted!

PM Sent.


Thanks for the feedback,
-Nick

[Rich Klein]

Actually and this is a MUST when it comes to doing a case break or something such as this is that the whole drawing of the numbers must be televised on a site such as Breakers.TV, the reason is you do not want ANY person with a hint of a complaint about the final decision.

Rich

[vintagetoppsguy]

There are a lot of questions being asked and comments being made that have ALREADY been addressed. Please read the enitre thread, folks.

[mattsey9]

Any thoughts on when this will launch? I'm heading to the Caribbean for the next eight days, but I don't wanthink to miss out.

[peterose4hof]

Would you be allowing B/S/T after the random? This is one of my favorite parts about these types of breaks and I'm sure others would love the chance to buy/sell unwanted cards and/or make trades.

Also, as T206 crazy as this board is, you could whip everyone into an absolute frenzy doing a near set-break of T206s. If you can make this happen it will be the most viewed and responded to thread in net54 history. Just sayin!

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

There are a lot of questions being asked and comments being made that have ALREADY been addressed. Please read the enitre thread, folks.

Sorry the line about being on TV line while the randomater was gong was missed on my part -- I saw that on the third re-read

[Matvoo]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

Would you be allowing B/S/T after the random? This is one of my favorite parts about these types of breaks and I'm sure others would love the chance to buy/sell unwanted cards and/or make trades.

Also, as T206 crazy as this board is, you could whip everyone into an absolute frenzy doing a near set-break of T206s. If you can make this happen it will be the most viewed and responded to thread in net54 history. Just sayin!

This get a partial set of t206 set

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by autocentral

The running the random generator is to make skeptics feel better and provide more excitement to the people watching live. I feel one-three randoms are good if you have about 5-10 people in the break, anything past that 5 is usually the best way to avoid anyone complaining or being skeptical.

-Nick

Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation and personal experience. Good luck!

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by mattsey9

Any thoughts on when this will launch? I'm heading to the Caribbean for the next eight days, but I don't wanthink to miss out.

Not sure when the break will launch but an email blast will probably be sent out. I think that would be the best way to keep everyone informed about what is going on. Leon and many others are busy at the national so more information will come once the national is over.

Nick

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

Would you be allowing B/S/T after the random? This is one of my favorite parts about these types of breaks and I'm sure others would love the chance to buy/sell unwanted cards and/or make trades.

Also, as T206 crazy as this board is, you could whip everyone into an absolute frenzy doing a near set-break of T206s. If you can make this happen it will be the most viewed and responded to thread in net54 history. Just sayin!

Yes buying/selling/trading will be allowed after the break for sure. Thanks for your question.

As for the T206 near set break I guess only time and interest will tell. The sky is the limit with these breaks. Hopefully one day we reach that limit.

Thanks,
Nick

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Actually and this is a MUST when it comes to doing a case break or something such as this is that the whole drawing of the numbers must be televised on a site such as Breakers.TV, the reason is you do not want ANY person with a hint of a complaint about the final decision.

Rich

Exactly. Everything has to done a specific way so no one questions the final results of the break.

Thanks for the comment Rich,
Nick

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation and personal experience. Good luck!

Thanks for the support,
Nick

[curtis-cards]

I'd be in for a spot or two. Sounds like fun!

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by autocentral

Exactly. Everything has to done a specific way so no one questions the final results of the break.

Thanks for the comment Rich,
Nick

Personally I think this concept is worthy of one of my columns --- I'm going to write this and pitch to my editor (who is a valued Net54 advertiser)

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Personally I think this concept is worthy of one of my columns --- I'm going to write this and pitch to my editor (who is a valued Net54 advertiser)

Wow awesome! Thank you Rich, I really appreciate it.

Nick

[oldjudge]

"As I stated in a previous answer to a question. There is a premium charge added to the break which Leon & I are splitting 50/50. A lot of time goes into planning and actually doing the break."

I realize you are making something. What I am asking is what percentage of the set's purchase price are you and Leon making? Will the cost of the set be disclosed?

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

"As I stated in a previous answer to a question. There is a premium charge added to the break which Leon & I are splitting 50/50. A lot of time goes into planning and actually doing the break."

I realize you are making something. What I am asking is what percentage of the set's purchase price are you and Leon making? Will the cost of the set be disclosed?

Yes these cost of the set will probably be disclosed as Leon & I are trying to be as transparent as possible with these breaks.

Thanks,
Nick

[wolf441]

Hi Nick,

I think it's a great idea and I don't think you'll have any trouble filling up the 200 or so slots.

Best of luck and keep us informed as I will certainly be in for a few slots.

Steve

[Texxxx]

I would be in for a couple of slots. I am going to Vegas in a week so it might depend what happens there.

[peterose4hof]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

"As I stated in a previous answer to a question. There is a premium charge added to the break which Leon & I are splitting 50/50. A lot of time goes into planning and actually doing the break."

I realize you are making something. What I am asking is what percentage of the set's purchase price are you and Leon making? Will the cost of the set be disclosed?

I have been involved in more than a hundred breaks the past handful of years and I can say without pause that the markup a breaker typically makes is nominal. It's truly a labor of love, not a big payday.

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

I have been involved in more than a hundred breaks the past handful of years and I can say without pause that the markup a breaker typically makes is nominal. It's truly a labor of love, not a big payday.

It definitely is not a big payday more work and headaches than anything. I really love doing group breaks, they are fun and get people with common interest together. Leon & I felt this would be a great addition to the site and hopefully generates new members.

Thank you for the support,
Nick

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by wolf441

Hi Nick,

I think it's a great idea and I don't think you'll have any trouble filling up the 200 or so slots.

Best of luck and keep us informed as I will certainly be in for a few slots.

Steve

Thanks for the support Steve,
Nick

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by Texxxx

I would be in for a couple of slots. I am going to Vegas in a week so it might depend what happens there.

Good luck in Vegas! Should be a fun time.

Thanks for the support,
Nick

[Eric72]

For those who may have an interest, here is a Frequency Distribution, by "book value," of the 1955 Topps Baseball set.

I am not offering an opinion here...just laying out the "odds."

Best regards,

Eric

[oldjudge]

Eric--that's great info, but you wonder, if people are willing to play a game where they have no idea what the house take is, why they would care what the expected value of a pick it.

[t206trader]

Where will this set come from? Are you acquiring a large swath and purchasing other cards individually? I think the concern oldjudge is making is that without seeing what your cost is we really wouldn't have any idea whether some of us would be in or not. What if we aren't able to acquire a Clemente at a reasonable cost? Do we buy one outside of our price just to do it or do we wait? The reason group box breaks work so well is because it's easy to acquire the product at a set price. There's really no guessing to it. I'm concerned that there are too many variables beyond our control for this to work unless you find someone selling an entire set.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Eric--that's great info, but you wonder, if people are willing to play a game where they have no idea what the house take is, why they would care what the expected value of a pick it.

It's an important part of the equation...just figured I would throw it out there.

Best regards,

Eric

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by t206trader

Where will this set come from? Are you acquiring a large swath and purchasing other cards individually? I think the concern oldjudge is making is that without seeing what your cost is we really wouldn't have any idea whether some of us would be in or not. What if we aren't able to acquire a Clemente at a reasonable cost? Do we buy one outside of our price just to do it or do we wait? The reason group box breaks work so well is because it's easy to acquire the product at a set price. There's really no guessing to it. I'm concerned that there are too many variables beyond our control for this to work unless you find someone selling an entire set.

You find someone selling an entire set. For 1955 Topps, that shouldn't be too hard.

[oldjudge]

Eric--if you believe these values are representative of the value of what is being purchased then the set should cost $13,369 (using mid-points) and a pick should be worth $64.90 with no house take. What I wonder is, with these numbers, how much would Nick and Leon charge per pick. If they charge $70, which doesn't seem like a big premium, they are making almost 10% which translates to over $1000.
And don't forget shipping.

[t206trader]

Originally Posted by wolf441

You find someone selling an entire set. For 1955 Topps, that shouldn't be too hard.

Right, but to meet our budget and all the aforementioned things could be tricky. Point is it's not as easy as it sounds.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Eric--if you believe these values are representative of the value of what is being purchased

Of course, condition is important...perhaps critical...in determining value.

Originally Posted by oldjudge

the set should cost $13,369

I believe a complete set can be purchased for quite a bit less than this. However, again, condition will certainly come into play. The "book value" (from the same Beckett price guide) lists the complete 206 card set, in Near Mint condition, at $8,000.

Originally Posted by oldjudge

a pick should be worth $64.90

I will defer to others (Nick and Leon, especially) on how much a pick should be worth; however, that does seem a bit high to me for this particular set break. Unless, of course, the cards are all graded and uniformly in NM or better condition. In which case, the chance of landing one of the better cards in the set comes into play.

Originally Posted by oldjudge

they are making almost 10%...And don't forget shipping.

Percentage-wise, that seems fair to me.

Just my two cents on the topic.

Best regards,

Eric

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by t206trader

Right, but to meet our budget and all the aforementioned things could be tricky. Point is it's not as easy as it sounds.

We are definitely finding someone with a complete 1955 Topps Set. Finding a set with our budget and standards should not be too hard to find.

Thanks for the comment,
-Nick

[t206trader]

I might be in for a spot depending on the final price point. I would be very interested in participating in a smaller prewar set also.

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Eric--that's great info, but you wonder, if people are willing to play a game where they have no idea what the house take is, why they would care what the expected value of a pick it.

As previously stated in multiple answers to questions. Leon & I are trying to be as transparent as possible. The amount we purchase the set for will be disclosed, if you have a problem with the premium charge we decide to charge don't join. It is really as simple as that. I promise you this, it definitely won't be near the premium blowoutcards previously charged for the both times they have ran a break like this. They must have had close to 30% premium charge, that my guess.

As for trying to determine a price for a spot, that remains to be seen but $65 is definitely not an accurate prediction. I understand people want all the answers to their questions at this time like a price per spot, a premium charge, etc. but we are just in the starting phases of setting this up so we can't provide that info until we finally post the official thread where people can claim spots and actually join the break.

Thanks,
-Nick

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by autocentral

As previously stated in multiple answers to questions. Leon & I are trying to be as transparent as possible. The amount we purchase the set for will be disclosed, if you have a problem with the premium charge we decide to charge don't join. It is really as simple as that. I promise you this, it definitely won't be near the premium blowoutcards previously charged for the both times they have run a break like this. They must have had close to 30% premium charge.

As for trying to determine a price for a spot, that remains to be seen but $65 is definitely not an accurate prediction. I understand people want all the answers to their questions at this time like a price per spot, a premium charge, etc. but we are just in the starting phases of setting this up so we can't provide that info until we finally post the official thread where people can claim spots and actually join the break.

Thanks,
-Nick

Nick,

At risk of offending, this reply does not seem congruent with a scholarly debate on the topic. I believe Net54 is supporting you on the idea of a 1955 Topps set break.

We simply want all of the details before signing on.

Best regards,

Eric

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Nick,

At risk of offending, this reply does not seem congruent with a scholarly debate on the topic. I believe Net54 is supporting you on the idea of a 1955 Topps set break.

We simply want all of the details before signing on.

Best regards,

Eric

No offense taken.

I know the community is supporting me and Im really appreciative of all the support. I know everyone wants to have all the details now but the truth is we don't have all the information to answer everyone's question. Im trying to answer every question as best as I can with the information I have at this time.

I promise, everyone will have time once all the information is officially posted on a new formal thread to sign in on the break if they wish. That new thread will hopefully provide all the information needed for members to decide if they want to join.

Thanks,
-Nick

[ZenPop]

In the event of many people participating, and in the interest of fairness, should all parties get one card and only then open it up to multiple slots on a first come, first served basis?

Also: If this works well (which I think it surely will) please consider these beautiful sets:

'50, '51, '52 Bowman
'52, '53, '54 Topps
'41 Playball
'33, '34 Goudey
'34 Diamond Stars
...and... of course... the t206 or other tobacco cards. (The Cracker jacks would be awesome... but, much like the tobacco cards, way out of my price range... but it would be fun to watch!)

[autocentral]

Originally Posted by ZenPop

In the event of many people participating, and in the interest of fairness, should all parties get one card and only then open it up to multiple slots on a first come, first served basis?

Also: If this works well (which I think it surely will) please consider these beautiful sets:

'50, '51, '52 Bowman
'52, '53, '54 Topps
'41 Playball
'33, '34 Goudey
'34 Diamond Stars
...and... of course... the t206 or other tobacco cards. (The Cracker jacks would be awesome... but, much like the tobacco cards, way out of my price range... but it would be fun to watch!)

I think with the 206 spots in the 1955 Topps set there will definitely be enough spots for people to take as many spots as they want. Everyone will definitely have a shot at spots. For possible future breaks that have less spots like pre-war sets for example limiting the number of spots you can buy could definitely be a possibility. Thanks for providing possible suggestions for future breaks.

Thank you for your post,
-Nick

[oldjudge]

Not everyone is supporting you. I would support this if the net proceeds were benefiting a charity. As a profit making scheme I am against this. I would be interested if one of the lawyers on the board could chime in as to the legality if this.