Seeking advice from autograph and vintage baseball experts

[BradH]

Two associates of mine at work asked for my advice on starting a project. They want to get Hall of Fame player autographs on official baseballs from the era in which they played. I do not have an extensive auto collection and I don’t know much about blank baseballs from the 1950s-80s, so I’m not much help to them. The balls I have signed are on the more modern Selig/Budig/Coleman baseballs.

Their questions are:
1) Would their collection carry more weight and be “cooler” if they had guys sign vintage balls from their playing era, or when they had their biggest years? For example, would it be better to have Hank Aaron on a Warren Giles ball? I told them that while it would be neat, I can’t answer how much better it would be overall. Other players they’re talking about include Ernie Banks, Bob Gibson, Willie Mays, Nolan Ryan, Lou Brock, Tom Seaver, etc.

2) The second issue (and this will be harder for them than actually getting the signatures) is where to get the balls? Are there any reputable dealers who would sell a dozen or so balls of Giles, Feeney, Cronin and/or MacPhail - and what would the cost be on some of these?

Thanks for any input you can provide,
Brad

[mcgwirecom]

Hi, I like the way you think. When I was starting to collect autographs I also had that idea. I was at a show and Denny McLain was there. I wanted to buy a Cronin AL baseball to have him sign. But after walking the show a few times I really couldn't locate one. After doing some research I found out a few things. 1) Old baseballs are expensive! 2) Players signatures change over the years and 3) a modern signature on an old baseball looks odd and will make people think its a forgery or something. So what I usually do is look for an old ball that was already signed by the player. Just my 2 cents...

[icollectDCsports]

I like the idea of having a player sign a ball from his playing era.

As for the availability and price of the balls, I've been told that one of the reasons why unsigned, older (particularly much older) official baseballs are so expensive is that scammers buy them to put forged "vintage" signatures on them to then sell for a lot more than they have invested in the ball. Interesting theory.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by icollectDCsports

I like the idea of having a player sign a ball from his playing era.

As for the availability and price of the balls, I've been told that one of the reasons why unsigned, older (particularly much older) official baseballs are so expensive is that scammers buy them to put forged "vintage" signatures on them to then sell for a lot more than they have invested in the ball. Interesting theory.

Absolutely valid reasoning. Of course, then you have Coach's corner who has balls w no manufacturer so they can skirt the manufacturing dates for their fakes

[thecatspajamas]

Randall is right on with his comments as far as I'm concerned.

I might add that I think the reason that vintage signed balls tend to sell for a bit of a premium over modern ones signed by the same player is that any autograph signed by an old-time player during their playing days tends to sell for more than their equivalent modern signature. In other words, it's more about the age of the autograph than the age of the item it's signed on.

I've used this analogy before (maybe even in relation to baseballs, I can't remember): Say you're thinking of collecting players' autographs on U.S. currency. Lots of people have done this with $1 and $2 bills. Would it be cooler to do it on $50 or $100 bills? Sure, but is it worth the added cost of the substrate when what you're really collecting is the signature on it.

All that said, there are dealers who make a point of carrying unsigned vintage balls (*insert shameless plug here*), but you'll be hard-pressed to find any who have a dozen Giles, Cronin, or even Feeney balls available. MacPhail maybe, as there seems to have been a lot of them that hit the market in the last few years still in the original boxes. Otherwise, you're probably going to be one- and two-at-a-timing it, unless you get lucky and find some new old stock in one of the big auctions.

[BradH]

I appreciate the feedback on this topic - it all makes this seem like a tough endeavor, in my opinion, but I will pass the info along.

Something else occurred to me. If you want to display the autographs, the fact that they're on playing-era baseballs will pretty much be hidden from view, assuming you're displaying the sigs facing out and the ball manufacturer/league president facing the wall. Correct? It kinda cuts down on the "coolness" by quite a bit I think.

[jsage]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Randall is right on with his comments as far as I'm concerned.

All that said, there are dealers who make a point of carrying unsigned vintage balls (*insert shameless plug here*), but you'll be hard-pressed to find any who have a dozen Giles, Cronin, or even Feeney balls available. MacPhail maybe, as there seems to have been a lot of them that hit the market in the last few years still in the original boxes. Otherwise, you're probably going to be one- and two-at-a-timing it, unless you get lucky and find some new old stock in one of the big auctions.

See below - photos of my dozen Cronin Reach Baseballs
Jerry Sage jssage24@yahoo.com

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Very cool baseball lot. Those boxes look untouched.

[BradH]

Jerry - great stuff. Is that display case in the background yours? If so, let's see more of it!

If you (or anyone) has two Feeney and/or two Giles balls available for sale, I have two very interested buyers for them.

Thanks.

[jsage]

Originally Posted by BradH

Jerry - great stuff. Is that display case in the background yours? If so, let's see more of it!

If you (or anyone) has two Feeney and/or two Giles balls available for sale, I have two very interested buyers for them.

Thanks.

Brad -
No Feeney or giles Baseballs.
Have Cronin - MacPhail and Harridge.
Glad you like the vintage showcase - pictures below.

[jsage]

Originally Posted by BradH

Jerry - great stuff. Is that display case in the background yours? If so, let's see more of it!

If you (or anyone) has two Feeney and/or two Giles balls available for sale, I have two very interested buyers for them.

Thanks.

Brad -
Two more showcases you may enjoy-

[BradH]

All very nice - LOVE the Mantle ad & glove display.

To me, putting vintage pieces in old-school display cases is just a perfect touch for showing a collection.

Thanks for sharing!

[BradH]

One of the guys I was originally helping to search for and/or buy old balls showed me some of these that he just obtained. Everyone knows that old baseball cards have been reprinted, and while I've seen "old" footballs and football helmets being re-made, I was not aware that old baseballs have been re-printed:

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by BradH

One of the guys I was originally helping to search for and/or buy old balls showed me some of these that he just obtained. Everyone knows that old baseball cards have been reprinted, and while I've seen "old" footballs and football helmets being re-made, I was not aware that old baseballs have been re-printed:

In this hobby if there is a way to scam a buck someone will try to do it and not leave a penny change.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

In this hobby if there is a way to scam a buck someone will try to do it and not leave a penny change.

Also, you have to remember that unless someone was creating these 'new' old baseballs, guys like Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig would be forced to sign Bud Selig balls. My understanding is that Ruth now only signs balls with red and blue stitching.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by BradH

One of the guys I was originally helping to search for and/or buy old balls showed me some of these that he just obtained. Everyone knows that old baseball cards have been reprinted, and while I've seen "old" footballs and football helmets being re-made, I was not aware that old baseballs have been re-printed:

Rawlings also did a series of "reprint" baseballs under the label "Pastime Collection" (at least I think that was the name IIRC) going at least as far back as Frick balls. There doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there on them, but the ones that I have seen tended to have slightly smaller/tighter logos than the originals. They didn't make them for long, and they seem to have been quickly absorbed into the hobby, no doubt bought up by would-be forgers. If anyone has any Rawlings catalogs or dealer literature from the 1990's, perhaps they can dig up some info and share?

At one time, I had several of these that were from the series. See if you can spot what's wrong here:

[Mark70Z]

Jerry,

Those display cases are beautiful! Also, the way you have items displayed is very nice as well.

[Nashvol]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Rawlings also did a series of "reprint" baseballs under the label "Pastime Collection" (at least I think that was the name IIRC) going at least as far back as Frick balls. There doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there on them, but the ones that I have seen tended to have slightly smaller/tighter logos than the originals. They didn't make them for long, and they seem to have been quickly absorbed into the hobby, no doubt bought up by would-be forgers. If anyone has any Rawlings catalogs or dealer literature from the 1990's, perhaps they can dig up some info and share?

At one time, I had several of these that were from the series. See if you can spot what's wrong here:

Hmm... Bobby Brown must've been prez of the National League. Shucks, I had that wrong the whole time.

[Rawlings]

I believe the Pastime Collection, from what little I've uncovered, only extended to actual Rawlings era AL/NL balls. So if that's true it would have ended at MacPhail/Feeney. Of course it's possible I just haven't discovered older versions. I have no idea where that Frick reprint comes from, almost looks like a new miniature/sample style.

Here are some pics of the Pastime Collection run - hope it's OK to post a link to my picture galleries. Scroll down about halfway: http://photos.bigleaguebaseballs.com...nd-prototypes/

I discuss the differences between originals and reprints in some of the descriptions of those Pastime pics, but I need to update them with additional info. I never bothered to add the Brown, Budig, Coleman and White versions. As far as new/unused Giles baseballs, I have a handful, some new in sealed box and one or two open or damaged boxes. I could list some on the Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T section if anyone still needs them.

[joed25]

Personally I prefer vintage playing days single signed baseballs. Vintage signature on vintage baseballs.