pre-war post war comparison rarity and price

[sflayank]

while being almost exclusively a post war collector i do enjoy all the pre-war stuff as well...what i can't fathom however is the disparity in rarity and availability compared to the price
In amy given year one with "enough" money can purchase any # of wagners planks magie etc etc etc It appears to me that these so called pre war collectors do nothing except resell the same card over and over again..in looking over all the catalogues for the last 5 years alone a wagner has appeared in an auction 15 times....if you have $200k to buy 1 in poor its yours for the taking...now lets look at the post war rarities...the most popular ballplayer of the post war era...mickey mantle
I dont care how many millions of dollars you have...lets see you buy a 1961 mickey mantle dice game...how about the prices of the tough esskay meats huggins is getting...buy any 1955 topps test stamps lately?
POINT BEING...post war rarities that surface.. are stashed away in collections and only reappear when someone dies...so you need to buy them when they do appear...
seems to me that wagners planks and magies arent really collected theyre just bought and sold as a commodity that any millionaire can buy every 3 months or so

[benchod]

Well your comparison is faulty because as already has been stated on this board plenty of times there are hundreds if not thousands of pre war cards more rare than the t206 Wagner or Plank. Heck there are probably dozens of other Wagners more rare than his t206.

[sflayank]

that may be true but wagner still brings in the big bucks
restored clipped trimmed repainted someone cant wait to throw down their 200k...when theres another one for sale 3 months later and every 3 months...the point I was making is that when an actual rare card appears the real collector ponies up and stashes it away....the wagner buyers just want to say they bought a wagner and will probably resell within a year

[Bicem]

With the insane price of the t206 Wagner, of course money is going to be a strong factor influencing people to sell. Even true collectors as you put it would be very tempted to sell if their post-war rarities were going to bring in as much as a t206 Wagner.

As a side note, can we name the Wagner cards that are in fact more rare than the t206? I bet the high number will surprise a lot of collectors.

[sflayank]

how about listing the rarity of any cards or series of cards

[Bicem]

[cdn_collector]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument, but it sounds like you're comparing expensive pre-war cards that aren't all that rare [expensive yes, but not rare imo] to post-war cards that are rare.

I don't know enough about post-war cards to list really rare cards...but I'm guessing if you went back through your auction catalogs to compare 5-10 post-war rarities to 5-10 pre-war rarities the numbers drastically change.

If you look at 5-10 cards of which I believe fewer exist than a T206 Wagner, how many times did these sell?

E107 Wagner
E92 Croft's Cocoa Wagner
Voskamp's Coffee Wagner
JK&A Wagner
Texas Tommy Joe Jackson
ANY Just So Tobacco Baseball Card
Any California League or Player's League Old Judge

And for fun,

T231 Frank Baker
Maple Crispette Stengel


I don't have a clue on the numbers for these cards -- they might still be significantly more than the 1961 Mantle you mention, but I'm guessing the numbers might be more in line with what you're expecting to see.

Regards,

Richard.

[Jacklitsch]

I'll start it off with a few. Feel free to add more...

N172 Anson Uniform
1911 Zeenut Bohen
Fans Baker
Alpha Keeler

[cdn_collector]

Originally Posted by Jacklitsch

Alpha Keeler

Isn't every Alpha -- and every Allegheny for that matter -- more rare than nearly every T206 on account of there being only 1 of each?

And how about a FBH Kelly or Ewing?
And now that I've checked out Preece's site, where do Lone Jacks and Kalamazoo Bats fit into the picture?


Richard.

[Jacklitsch]

Already covered.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Jacklitsch

I'll start it off with a few. Feel free to add more...

N172 Anson Uniform
1911 Zeenut Bohen
Fans Baker
Alpha Keeler

I just meant Wagner cards more rare than the t206 Wagner.

[Jacklitsch]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacklitsch
I'll start it off with a few. Feel free to add more...

N172 Anson Uniform
1911 Zeenut Bohen
Fans Baker
Alpha Keeler

I just meant Wagner cards more rare than the t206 Wagner.
__________________
"I'm not a dumb person, per see."

But I think the original poster was looking to any cards in any sets in any series.

[Bicem]

gotcha... that's a lot of cards.

[ullmandds]

Sets with rarer Wagss' than T206:

e103, e105, e106, e107, e90-1 throwing, e91, e90-2,e102...there are many more.

[sflayank]

what i am really trying to say is that if you have $200k to spend and you are a collector you would be much better off buying rare cards in an auction then a wagner plank magie etc
given a choice of buying a set of dice games or a wagner a real collector would buy the dice games...Why ? because u wont see another set for 30 years where as youll see a wagner every 2 months...wagners are being bought and sold like stock options
rare cards are bought by collectors

[barrysloate]

There does seem to be too many Wagners and Planks available these days, but prices for them are wacky and many owners see this as a good time to sell. Simple economics.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by sflayank

what i am really trying to say is that if you have $200k to spend and you are a collector you would be much better off buying rare cards in an auction then a wagner plank magie etc
given a choice of buying a set of dice games or a wagner a real collector would buy the dice games...Why ? because u wont see another set for 30 years where as youll see a wagner every 2 months...wagners are being bought and sold like stock options
rare cards are bought by collectors

Thanks for clarifying the rules of collecting.

[egbeachley]

You are forgetting a very important piece. Demand. It's every bit as important as Supply.

Until 5 minutes ago, if I walked into an antique store and saw a 1961 Mantle dice game for $50, I would have passed. If I saw a poor T206 Wagner for $50,000 I would have done anything to buy it (then flip it).

I have about 20 cards that are 1 of 1 known. Unless I can generate enough "buzz" they will never sell high enough for me.

[rman444]

We've already done this list of Wagners that are rarer than the T206. I will try to dig it up and repost it here in this thread.