Sniping - For it or 'agin it?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim VB

This came up in another thread, but where does everyone stand on sniping?

Tim Sanders felt it was a type of price manipulation. I found that to be an interesting point of view and had never thought of it that way. I guess your perspective would differ if you're mostly a buyer or a seller. I am almost 100% a buyer.

I see sniping as a means of protecting myself from shilling, and even if no shill is involved, as a means to keep from getting my bids run up to the max.

I can see where, from the seller's point of view, having everyone snipe could be nerve-wracking.


What does everyone else think?

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob D.

eBay sets the rules, and the way the rules are set up, sniping makes sense. Because of the predetermined ending time of a sale, eBay is not a true auction format anyway, so comparing the principles of a true auction to eBay is like comparing apples and oranges.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

It's just the way I normally bid....No worries or angst here....IF someone bids more on a snipe then they win. If I wanted it bad enough I should have bid more. I love it when I want something real bad...set a snipe of about 5k and get the item for about 1k......regards

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul

I just started using sniping in the past year. I enjoy the convenience of it. Just set my max price, & no need to watch it as much. I'm against sniping when icantbelievewhatijustsaw uses it against me!

[Archive]

Posted By: Alan U

I don't really see a downside to it, for either seller or buyer.

[Archive]

Posted By: S Gross

I can understand the argument against it, but I snipe everything (from $5 to $500). Even though ebay now "hides" id's, I still don't want to show my hand (even at my lower end). Although I sometimes put in a lower-than-snipe bid and see if it holds. If it does, great, but I also have the snipe as a back up. I guess that could fall into the "manipulation" theory, but I don't feel it is negative action.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Sanders

I view sniping as an unnatural format to "bid" on the auction.

Again it's just an opinion, coming from a buyer tha didn't even know of the practice until a few months ago (from here). Maybe for now it's the shock factor but it explains why I've lost out in the past.

Protecting one's self against a shill? If you'd indulge me and explain how? If they've already shilled some then isn't it already there aganst the Snipe you set? What are you protecting yourself against the 70+ bids in $1 increments?

If you have a small budget (a few hundred a month) like me, each bid is weighed against the other and I miss out by being sniped at the end.
Bitter... possibly!
Wrong... your opinion, but I won't think any less of anyone for doing it (but I do chuckle when everyone complains about a snipe glitch).

But if I wanted to counter I can't because of a Snipe set at 30 seconds left. So the price stays lower than it could have in the end. To my mind - price manipulation, but feel free to prove me wrong.

[Archive]

Posted By: samuel

I understand why some have a problem with it. to me it's an acceptable practice but it's something I wouldn't do.

[Archive]

Posted By: dennis

It is an auction.... it is not who bids first but who bids the most. how can anyone be against sniping? last minute bids should not be allowed?

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D.

"But if I wanted to counter I can't because of a Snipe set at 30 seconds left. So the price stays lower than it could have in the end. To my mind - price manipulation, but feel free to prove me wrong. "

I don't know that I can prove you wrong.

But I would say.... eBay chose to be a timed auction.
Other auction houses choose to have a 10-minute rule to guard against the last second bid / no chance to counter.
So the snipes are just working within the confines set by eBay

Of course there is a way for you to combat a snipe without sniping yourself. Just put in your actual max bid when you bid.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob D.

No, it is not a true auction. In a true auction, sniping would not even be a topic, because there is always the opportunity to top the current high bid. eBay doesn't afford that chance. Again, eBay sets the rules; sniping is merely one of the tools to attempt to play successfully by those rules.



As an aside, before eBay moved in the direction of wanting to host more straight sales than auctions, I never understood why the company didn't implement a 2-minute (or pick a time) extension on the end of auctions. If a bid was placed in the last 15 seconds, the auction is extended 2 minutes. That would make sniping a moot point.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Sanders

The rules are broken, but we play by them.... true!!!! And not knowing who is bidding is the worst part. I haven't figured out how to defend against a Snipe when I don't know who I'm bidding against. Add to that the fact that it happens so fast...how can you other than taking the risk of blowing the budget like Joe said (not really but taking liberties with set the price you want to win at)?

[Archive]

Posted By: Cat

I actually like sniping from a sellers standpoint. Snipers don't want to inch the price up so they don't put initial bids in, they just place that bid at the highest level which they are willing to buy the item. Non-snipers often only inch the price up until they barely cross the threshold of the then highest bidder. A Sniper who ends up competing with another Sniper often will end up with the card at a price that he/she is willing to pay but far more than they wanted to pay. Sniping doesn't allow the buyer to get cold feet or like a non-Sniper barely cross the threshold of the high bidder and just hope that he/she remains the high bidder.

As a buyer (and I mostly buy), I only snipe. I've bought items that I really wanted at 25% of my snipe.

________________

http://www.audiocomedy.net/soundboards/jacket.shtml

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D.

"Add to that the fact that it happens so fast...how can you other than taking the risk of blowing the budget like Joe said (not really but taking liberties with set the price you want to win at)?"


Tim - but that is exactly what a sniper does.

A sniper puts in his max-bid, his real max-bid.

The way to combat that is to put in your real max-bid.


The reason I like sniping is....
1) if I change my mind up to very close to auction close - I can cancel my snipe.
I can't cancel an already placed max-bid.


2) It is very convenient.... I don't need to watch auctions anymore. Set it and forget it.



As far as 'price stays lower than it could have in the end. To my mind - price manipulation'.....
not putting in your max bid / hoping you won't have to - - actually does more to keep a price lower in the end than any snipe would (IMO).

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank B

If you can't beat em, maybe join em. It will level the playing
field for you and you may come to appreciate the convenience.
Many don't have the time to stake out auctions till they wind
down. I know for a fact that I'd buy a lot less if it weren't
available.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Sanders

I know that you all think I'm crazy- but my wife calls me stubborn ...so I'm sticking with that! I prefer to bid on an auction sans a snipe. When I want to buy something I do and often way over what I would have bid. Such is life when you're addicted to old cardboard!!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Tony Andrea

The reason I use a sniping service is simple. Not having to sit in front of the computer on bid day just to track something until the final seconds is a real convenience. That's pretty much it for me.
I'm simple man.....
Tony A.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Speaking of sniping (I'm all for it btw) is Blazing Bid back up yet? I'm guessing not since I haven't heard anything. I've been using Gavelsnipe, but I can't figure out how to set the time I want my snipe to go off...it's going off about 30 seconds before the end of the auction and I'd like it to go off with 5-10 seconds.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

For it. You can bid and not have to keep checking back every other second.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I always use gavelsnipe. I think my bids go at about 7 seconds. I am sure there must be a way to change it but I don't remember ever trying to....best regards

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Sniping is within ebay rules, and I don't see a reason to even question it. It is the best way a bidder can bid aggressively on ebay. You only get one shot, and can't come back. It's you best chance to win the lot. Perfectly fair.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim VB

Tim,

I don't think you're crazy or stubborn. I'm just not sure I understand exactly what you mean by "price manipulation." If you mean buying the item at the lowest possible price I can, then I'll plead guilty. But if you mean doing something to artificially hold down the price, I don't see it.

Leon pointed this auction out last week.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=300271118332

The winner paid $600. The second highest legitimate bid on this card was around $225. After that, he was bidding against the seller and his shills (looks like 2 of them.) Had the winner sniped, even at if his snipe was the $600 bid, chances are he would have had the card in the $250-$300 range.

Even with sniping you can get shilled but it's a little harder. The seller runs a greater risk of buying his own card. This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. A card had sat at @$20 for 7 days. I sniped $40. (Thanks to VCP I knew the seller had purchased the card around that price.) The seller had shilled it once at $30, but apparently wanted to protect his cost price so he shilled it again and "won" it at $41. Within an hour I got a "Second Chance Offer" to buy the card at my $40 price. I passed. The way I looked at it, the card should have been mine at around $22.50. He just re-listed it today. I won't bother to ever bid with him again. (I hope he's not a board member.)

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=220301846226

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob

"I haven't figured out how to defend against a Snipe"

If your max bid is higher than the snipe, you beat it. Just set your max bid.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim VB

Dan, Leon,



With Gavelsnipe, go to gavelsnipe.com (don't use the "snipe-it" icon on your tool bar.) On the blue toolbar, click on "My Account". Then click on "My Gavelsnipe Preferences."



Keep in mind there is a gray area here. I have actually won two auctions where myself and somebody else tried to bid the same amount, but my bids went in first (I think I'm set at about 10 seconds.)



Sometimes it pays to be a little earlier.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Thank you Jim. It looks like the default snipe on gavelsnipe is set at 20 seconds.

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark

Totally for it... my winning percentage is much higher when sniping, and I almost always win the item for less money than otherwise.

Plus, whenever something I really care about comes along, it seems I have to be traveling or away from the computer during closing time. Sniping is the best defense, most convenient and efficient way to bid. I almost wish that Mastro, Lelands and REA would find a way to incorporate it!

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric B

Seems to me that Tim is the only one manipulating the auction prices. By allowing the winner to pay only $1 (or whatever the increment) above Tim's bid which was admittedly low since he would have gone higher.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Sanders

Please be specific- are you talking about me- if so you assume too much- if I'm not the first one in placing a bid I do place a bid and if it still looks close bump it again by 10-15%- or I let my bid die. I may be different than typical bidders but also based on this thread I am also different than most here... not that any is a bad thing but... too each his own!

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric B

Yes. Here is the last part of your first post (within the .....). You challenged us to prove you wrong, so I did.

........But if I wanted to counter I can't because of a Snipe set at 30 seconds left. So the price stays lower than it could have in the end. To my mind - price manipulation, but feel free to prove me wrong..........

My thoughts are that the sniper put in his final highest bid. Had you also done so, the price would have gone to the highest bidder at an amount 1 increment higher than the second bidder. By not placing your true bid, the price stays artificially low. Therefore you were manipulating the price on the downside.


Joe, I just noticed you were saying the same thing

[Archive]

Posted By: David Goff

I am for it..

I've been using ezsniper for about 4 yrs now and love it. One of the main reason why I snipe, is so I do not get into a bidding war with other buyers. And the other reason I like it is I do not have to worry about getting to my pc before the auction ends. If the auction goes over my max price, oh well. To quote the great Ron Popeil, I "just set it and forget it!"

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Sanders

I can see what you are saying but as you lay it out does the sniper not buy it for one increment over the high bid of the other person as well?

But if there are 2 types of bidders Snipers and Non- Snipers wouldn't the sniper keep the price low vs a non-sniper? It really works both ways?!

I just must be stubborn- I see all your points but maybe then the whole point of an auction is price manipulation after all - best deal lowest price?

Maybe a bad choice on my part of words in that other post but I still refuse to snipe.

[Archive]

Posted By: Chris Diaz

I'm all for sniping, and sometimes if you want to compete, you have to be. It's convenient from a buyers standpoint, and as a seller, I like it as well. It's gives your prospective buyers flexibility.

I use Gixen.com by the way. Works like a charm.

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

I was getting shilled, a lot. And when names were revealed I was getting searched, a lot. As a result I was losing cards, a lot. I started sniping and have had much better luck. Plus I definitely feel it is shill protection. And I agree it keeps me from having to sit around waiting for an auction end and allows me to change my mind multiple times on an item.

The only downside to sniping is that as a seller if I see no bids I might panic. But if I see lots of watchers, I know the snipes are coming later. I will often make an off-Ebay offer for something I really want just to let the seller know that I am interested and not to panic sell to someone else.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: JB

It is a necessary evil (shillers)........besides its neat to bid on an item and not have to be near a PC.
If you do not like it , you have not tried it. Saves time and money!

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve F

Sniping sux.
The honeydew list has returned. Before gavel snipe it was "I'll get to it later Sweetmeat, I have to see this auction through or I'll lose this baseball card!". Oh the humanatee

[Archive]

Posted By: Ed McCollum

There is a maximum I can afford to spend on any lot. I enter it when I bid, and if I get the auction, great. If not, I came up short. Wouldn't matter if it was a "real" auction or not. I've only got so much to spend on any given thing.

[Archive]

Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

like it.. kinda

I never used sniping until a few folks here recommended it. I won a few auctions that way these past few months, perhaps I saved some money, perhaps not but I definately saved some time.

marty